I know that the mazara missle barrage is held in high regard but is the desolators missle swarm as good or worse. idk about the damages but level 3 is prob as good as the missle barrage. the missle barrage costs 150 antimater and has along cooldown compared to the missle barrage. both of these have changed battles for me and i am wondering which is better.
what is ur opinion on the better missle attack and why.
Newsflash! Some players came to this insight!You can interrupt every ability that can be interrupted: -> THEREFORE, EVERY ABILITY IS BALANCED!
Congratulations. Do you believe your own logic?
The fact remains that you will neither look for the Kol, nor the Sova, nor the Akkan, nor for the Dunov if there is a Marza. You will always check if it is level 6+, and then save your interrupt or die in a Missile Barrage.
The level 6 ability of the Desolator is not of that caliber - you can get away without knowing what it does.
I did not say the Marza must be nerfed to the ground, this is not the meaning of balance. But something about Missile Barrage is BROKEN. It is very easy and effective to use, and if you cannot counter it, you are screwed. This is quite more significant than a TEC player crying about an interrupted missile barrage. You did not harm him considerably, but you prevented tons of damage to your fleet. This is one of many flaws in the strawman "just interrupt missible barrage".
Hmmm, what?
Most of abilities cannot be interrupted.
Only ones that channeling abilities and very few selected ones can be stopped, others are instant effect and there is nothing you can do about it.
There are some notiable abilities from main powerhorse capitals that can be interrupted.
1.) Missile barrage.
2.) Shield restore.
3.) Drain planet.
And again said by many skilled players, the problem is that most abilities are way too weak, not missile barrage and other notable abilities overpowered.
just to get this out in the open, i think alot of people have vastly differing ideas of what is meant by "re-balancing". i think when some of you hear someone say this the only thought that occurs is "oh jesus, they want this nerfed to hell so bad it will be unusable."
im sure that some people do mean that when they talk about re-balancing, but i certainly don't. i like Missile Barrage as a very powerful ability. i just think its a bit too far down the power level curve. honestly, would it make such a big difference to you if it was changed to 16 waves down from 20? you'd still use it enthusiastically right? at 16 waves it would just be doing 20% less overall damage, and thus possibly mitigate the instant game-over consequence of getting caught by one without an interrupt.
thats the kinda change i mean when i say "re-balance". i'm talking about small incremental adjustments that might improve the variety of strategy in the game/ i'm not talking about just nerfing something to uselessness because it somehow offends me.
I'm quite surprised that Missile barrage doesn't have any sort of target cap. How many missiles can one really pack inside that thing, anyway? If it's possible to have, say, 10 targets, but it picks up new targets as ships die, it would still be an excellent ability. And that's the thing. You can nerf the everliving crap out of missile barrage, and it would still be GREAT. How then, can you say it is balanced against the rest of the mediocre and decent abilities?
I don't think it would be too much to have a maximum number of targets for the missile barrage. On other hand, i would really like it if the ship would not interrupt itself by moving or picking a new target...
Missile Barrage has simply too much destructive potential, WAAAY more then any other cap ship ability in the game.
I suggest that Missile Barrage should have a channeling time and duration a quarter of what they are now, but it should do half as much damage. The cooldown time should also be 25% shorter. This way, Missile Barrage will be harder to counter and more efficient, but less powerful.
The Desolator is a fairly good cap ship, but Phase Missile Swarm should have a chance to bypass shields and shield mitigation.
(e.g. 10%/20%/30%)
What I find stupid is that the Kortul, Antorak and Desolator have lower DPS then the Akkan. How does this work? The Akkan is just a coloniser.
If what you say is true, that's a damn good question!
Honestly: you should have both a radiance and a marauder in either advent or vasari fleets for many reasons aside interrupting a marza.
Why? The radiance is a decent crowdcontrol tool and pair up good with all other advent ships, the antimatter burn is a long term disruptive ability that is effective even if left at level 1. Cleansing brilliance, while nice, is actualy not the reason you want this vessel with you. Crowdcontrol is.
The marauder increases your agility by a large marging and that alone is solid gold for a vasari. You can go pick your battles. Being able to take any ship out of the game for a period of time is decent as well. Way to break synergys.
As for tec, they can use magnetize as they always have a dunov with their fleet anyway.
And remember: The marza has to get to level 6 first. failing to prevent it is your own fault.
There is a huge power discrepancy between being able to interrupt and neutralize a battle deciding ability and having this ability.
Missile Barrage would still rock even if you nerf the damage considerably, the whole concept needs to be reworked. "Press Button to destroy all frigates and cruisers in the purple circle within 20 seconds at max" is a better description for MB.
Missle Barrage doesn't win games sometimes, it's more like: "I got a Marza lvl6 - you can type gg. Have a nice day ". Obviously you have to know how to use and when to use it, but I am quite sure that it's one (and probably: the most) of most game changing abilities present in the game. In order to make similar damage using Advent army, you have to have 3 caps, micro them skillfully (due to very short abilities duration) and pray that enemy will position his ships 'properly'. And how is that in comparision with Marza? Get one or two (can you say OVERKILL?), get them into the fray and fire up the ability. Opponent can of course interrupt you, but still it doesn't happen that often as there are literally a few such abilities in the whole game, and even under assumption that you have one of them available to you in the field of battle, you would have to time it quite well.As someone stated, if we don't want to nerf it, than why just we don't introduce more counters to it?
keep in mind that the Akkan is a side-shooter so its generally only firing half of its weapons at a time unless its completely surrounded. so ya, a completely surrounded Akkan does more damage then a Desolator firing just to the front. under normal circumstances its not even close.
Just compare MB to Yamoto Cannon from Starcraft. It hits one single target, has charge up time, and telegraphs activation. Missile Barrage hits everything in range, no charge up and no telegraph. it wouldn't be bad to "rebalance" it.
The way I see it, this can be 'fixed' pretty simply.
1) Make the missile barrage effect more obvious (or is it just my screen that makes it look like just a bunch of javelis firing?), a shinier effect would be nice.... mebbe a larger fire spurt blasting out of the launchers or something. The sooner you notice it the sooner you can stop it, so less beaten people whining.
2) Buff the Vasari Marauder's combat abilities so that you aren't shooting yourself in the foot taking one early game just to have some protection against the Marza. Really, that thing has GOT to be the WEAKEST cap in game... and w/ the new Kostura in Entrenchment... it can be rather redundant to have one (don't get me wrong, the kostura gets you into nice places, and the Antorak gets you out of them, but, play your cards right in the first place and you won't be needing to get out).
3) Possibly give the Vasari another interupt ability. Does the Gravity Warhead interupt abilities? If not? It should. Everyone has a god damn space whale anyway. If it does, scratch this last one. I would LOVE some clarification on this, does anyone know if GW has an interupt effect? (LOL, I only use it when they are running away, so... never really noticed)
4) Increase the target cap on the Vasari Desolator, or remove it COMPLETELY. If the Marza can hit ALL targets within range, it only makes sence for a technologically superior alien vessel to be able to do the same with what is essentially the same tactic... Note: I do not think that the Desolator should fire WAVES. It should just fire off one spurt that hits everything within range, once. Failing uncapping the ability, increase the number of ships affected to somewhere between 16-32, seven is far too weak.
If you are playing TEC, or Advent, you really have alot of options to interupt the Marza, and likely need to pay more attention in battles... see option 1, a simple cosmetic fix (although, let me double check my particle settings, mebbe I forgot to turn something up ).
Anyhoo, as you can see, I do NOT advocate nerfing the Marza. I used to, but... I've realized that it's not neccesary. I also highly reccomend the AI be improved in terms of cap ship ability usage... as it stands the AI does NOT use interupt abilities effectively, and a Marza is just about an I WIN button against the AI after level 6.
I personally think that option 4 is needed regardless of comparison with the Marza, as the PMS is weak. And you would rather think something called PMS would be far deadlier than it is... I mean geez, the average girl friend's PMS has no target cap and issues 1,000 dmg to each target (and it bypasses shield mitigation) and applies the "Migraine" effect, which disables the use of abilities for the duration and drains 200 anti-matter!
-Itharus
...
For those of you that are unaware, missile barrage does 150 damage x 20 waves x HUGE area x unlimited targets. Against one target that is 3000 damage (minus mitigation), which is instant death to just about EVERY frigate. Against 2 targets that's 6000 damage. Against 10 targets that's 30 000 damage. Against 50 targets that's 150 000 damage. Against 200 targets (~max fleet) that's 600 000 damage, which is not too difficult to get with its HUGE radius. Throw in another enemy's fleet for good measure, you get the idea.
Over half a million damage is possible from one blast of missile barrage! Not even an entire vasari superweapon sector can pull that off.
Missile barrage is the ONLY ability in the game where the power can be described as "Counter this or LOSE". The only other ability in the game like that was an embargo rush. The Advent supercombo was great, but no longer works, so I'm not sure why missile barrage should.
Great point. Almost everything that was great about Advent was nerfed to hell. Why not nerf Missile Barrage? It is so obviously the most powerful ability in the game. Why build suicidal base when one Marza can do more every couple minutes? Besides Marza has best damage output even with out Missible Barrage.
To answer the original questions MAZDA MASH DESTROYS PUNY VASARI PAPERWEIGHT
And i think that it needs a buff for unlimited range and instant death for all ships in gravity well and structures. I find many times that the marza missle barrage is very dissapointing killing only half the enemy fleet. I EXPECT COMPLETE DESTRUCTION OF EVERYTHING. Also nerfing all other ships to 1 dps would also help to balence the situation and give that marza a more equal footing in battles. OR take away all weapons on the marza and make it a peace envoy that bring presents to the enemy. OR automatically minidump the game when someone uses missile barrage "by accident" of course. hmmmm im such a genius i think everyone should give me karma for beinga ubergenius. Oh and the Marza should appear to retreat and and the missles should be invisible and should cause enemy to minidump.
On a more serious note the marza doesn't need a nerf the ability can easily be interupted by support ships. If the marza does too much damage then your fleet sucks horribly and at that point if marza cap actually matters nerfing would not work anyway. And most of the time why why why why why why why why why why why why why why would vasari get any other cap then space eggz that thing can even kill a marzda if given like 1-2 assilants to help it along. I see NO reason to build maurder cap to counter marza early game.
(someone fix my post and be a grammar nazi to correct my post so everyone can read it lol.)
CORRECTED POST BELOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
EDITED POST
To answer the original questions MAZDA MASH DESTROYS PUNY VASARI PAPERWEIGHTAnd [I] think that [the missle barrage] needs a buff for unlimited range, [AND] instant death for all ships in gravity well and structures. I find many times that the marza missle barrage is very dissapointing, killing only half the enemy fleet. I EXPECT COMPLETE DESTRUCTION OF EVERYTHING. Also[,] nerfing all other ships to 1 dps would also help to [balance] the situation and give [the]marza a more equal footing in battles[;] OR take away all weapons on the marza and make it a peace envoy that bring presents to the enemy[;] OR automatically minidump the game when someone uses missile barrage, "by accident" of course. hmmmm [I']m such a genius. [I] think everyone should give me karma for being [a] uber[-]genius. Oh, and the Marza should appear to retreat[,] and and the missles should be invisible[,] and should cause enemy to minidump. On a more serious note[,] the marza doesn't need a nerf[.] [T]he ability can easily be interupted by support ships. If the marza does too much damage then your fleet sucks horribly[.] and [A]t that point, if marza cap actually matters[,] nerfing would not work anyway. And [M]ost of the time why why why why why why why why why why why why why why would [V]asari get any other cap then space egg[?] [T]hat thing can even kill a [Mazara] if given like 1-2 assilants to help it along. I see NO reason to build maurder cap to counter marza early game.(someone fix my post and be a grammar nazi to correct my post so everyone can read it lol.)
Couldn't resist
and my posts usually have mistakes in them too
Missile Barrage is still the same?
No other level 6 cap in the game demands such heavy measures to make sure you can interrupt their ability before you can even try to fight them. Should get balanced already, the novelty has worn off.
Lol "heavy counter- measures" he says; I think that a 1 or more support ships are generally not that unreasonable. But then again, im just a Maraza fan and seeing my baby be destroyed would make me very sad. Mega sad face for effect.
here is a link proving that marza's don't need nerf
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
give me karma for doing so!!!!
I would give you negative Karma if I can. That video is majorly homoerotic.
what? Ignore that guy. I'm not sure what hes talking about. I posted real proof
rollin with the rick is not real proof, but it does prove the point that some things need to be nerfed, ie the fad!
The Missile barrage does not need a nerf!!!
every single race in the game has at least 1 cap that can easily stop the barrage without marza even scratching its fleet. and in the late game there are so many ships that you could focus fire the martza and have it destroyed before it has a chance to use missile barage.
now getting back to the main discussion about marza vs desolator
the marza and desolator really have 2 purposes each.
The marza is a heavy combat ship with its radiation bomb and indeionary skills (or whatever it is called) and it is alos ment for planetary bombardment ( raze planet)
The desolator really is not that great a ship for combat, it has pretty low weapon dmg and the 2nd 2 abilties are really more usefull than phase missile swarm.
The desolator is probably the best seige cap in the game because of its bombardment platforms and assult specialization. both of those together can take down a planet pretty quickly. Its other main purpose is anti starbase attack. assult specialization at lvl 3 I think does 120 dmg per shot of the phasemissiles to structures including starbases. now with the survivability of a cap it can make a serious dent in a starbase before getting destroyed. now its lvl 6 ability is even better when fighting against a starbase because it can heal itself while killing the starbase, making it even better for taking out the massive defence strucutes.
If the ships are used in their best positions they are equally as usefull as the others.
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