This is a quick post, hopefully to be seen by the eyes of Stardock employees. I wont buy Entrenchment if the only way I can install it is through Impulse. Impulse is DRM. It stops you from installing Impulse-only titles without logging onto the Impulse network. It's my understanding that it's illegal to install SoaSO: Entrenchment any other way than via Impulse.
I buy games regularly, but I don't buy games that contain these restrictions. Just as I purchased Sins, I will purchase Entrenchment if a digital download copy is made available without restrictions.
-Kom
I'm sorry? Are you telling me the massive GalCiv2 2.0 update was a fart in the breeze? The entire reason Impulse is required for updating is because Stardock wants to provide these perks as an incentive for people who bought the games - if you pirate it, or just don't use Impulse, the game will run just fine, as it was intended, on its own - no zero-day patching or critical bugs. If you did buy the game, you get the perks of their generally rather generous patches. So you deal with steam because ONE GAME comes out with some free content every few months (well two - I guess you can count Left4Dead) - no other game on Steam is given that treatment besides those, but you're going to accept it and then badmouth Impulse over it?
1) You don't need Impulse running to play the game. In fact, you really don't need it at all. Furthermore, Impulse doesn't run in the background whatsoever. If you disable the 'quick start' it won't even keep a memory process running. Impulse doesn't run in the background - period.
This thread is so full of fail. Everyone bitching about Impulse states in one way or another that they're just a hypocritical whiner. Seriously, if you're going to complain about a feature, don't undermine your own position by stating in the same goddamn post that you honestly don't really CARE about it. Complaining that you need Impulse to get a patch while saying that you approve of needing STEAM to get a damn patch is just retarded.
It's like bitching about how overpriced Dell computers are, while you're using an Alienware.
LOL all of this on the "IMPULSE" forums.
Personally, I find updates for lot's of my other games to be a real nightmare. I'm not very computer literate and only a casual gamer. All this download from a mirror site choose French, German, UK or USA mirror. Only for the download to take an hour then fail with an unexpected error please re-download. IT'S SO F**KING ANNOYING and time consuming. Impulse is so unbelieveably easy to use AND turn off that why anyone has any problem with it is beyond me. I just wish i could put ALL my games on here, Keep track of my legal license keys that i paid for, Get all my updates in one place and do all of that with a couple of clicks of the mouse. Not to mention being able to buy/download expansions etc without having to buy a disc which i'm pretty sure adds to the overall cost of the game. But if i want a disc i can pay the little bit extra and get one sent out.
Impulse makes MY gaming experience easier. The only time it may get a bit harder is if every different company has a different form of impulse. And in order to get that games updates i have to use that version of impulse. In theory i could have five or more Impulse-like programs i HAVE to use to get my downloads. At the moment i only have sins/entrench to worry about.
I say keep doing what you're doing Stardock/Impulse/ICO. It works (99.9%) of the time and makes my life easier.
P.S Honestly i'm not looking for an argument and i've read all the posts. Most of you guys in here know more about this S**T than me, but i thought that the little guy who just enjoys the game for what it is and accepts all the add ons needed a voice. Please don't reply just to slag off my comment.
Uranium man. I want to respond to your points, but I feel like I'd just be fueling a fire. Chill out. I want to point out that the main reason I made this post was just to vocalize that I ( a single person ), am avoiding the Entrenchment expansion because of Impulse. This isn't the first game I've avoided because of things like this. I don't like Impulse and how it operates. That is my opinion. There might not be many people that don't like Impulse; conversly there might be loads. I think it's a good thing to give customer feedback to Stardock.
I would quite hapily buy Entrenchment if it was standalone on a CD like Sins, or if it was an installer that you download through your browser after you have paid. There are plenty of games out there which are distrobuted like those two ways I just mentioned and I only have a finite amount of money. I will spend my money on games, which are fun and fairly distrobuted.
I noticed a few people said that programs like Impulse and Steam make accessing and patching games really straight forward. I agree; that can be the case. There's no reason I can think of though why developers can't supply standalone patches independent of Impulse/Steam. That way they cater for people who don't want to use Impulse/Steam and people who do.
Actually; I can think of some reasons why publishers/devs might want to only support Impulse-like services and not provide standalone patches:
They sell these digital distrobution programs to us on the basis of convenience.
I personally liked it when I used to be able to shove a disk in the drive, install, enter the key & play. I could backup the disk incase it broke, and play the game as much as I wanted on as many new PC's as I bought. I also never had a problem with going to fileplanet to download the latest patch. Normally if a multiplayer game needed patching I'd try to connect to a server - it would fail and say it was out of date - I'd then go grab the latest patch.
Please don't flip out! This is purely my taste in game distrobution. I can't see why I (and other peeps who like games the way I do) can't be accomodated for ALONGSIDE Impulse-like services. Just release your games standalone and make patches standalone as well, and all your customers are happy.
They stated in the BETA phase that that their would be no protection on the entrenchment game.... so don't worry. They are treating gamers well. Its one of the prime reasons that I have supported ironclad and passed the message on whereever I could.
Is the protection on entrenchment different from the original sins or something? Does it go further?
Basically you can get Sins 1.05 on a CD. It doesn't need an internet connection to authenticate and there is nothing stopping you backing up the disk so if it breaks you still have the game you payed for.
If they didn't want to sell Entrenchment on CD's, Stardock management could have just made it available as a downloadable installer. You can buy the popular indy game world of goo ( http://worldofgoo.com/ ), from their home page. When you've payed through paypal they give you a link to an installer. You download it, install it and play. You can make a backup of the installer if you want, and once you've downloaded it you don't need an internet connection to authenticate.
With Entrenchment it's pretty annoying that they didn't use a plain old works-everywhere web download as an option to aquire Entrenchment (just like world of goo). So you HAVE to use Impulse. Even if you don't mind Impulse, there is no installer you can backup if you want to make sure you always have access to your paid for copy of entrenchment. You have to have an internet connection to authenticate via impulse to Install. If you're behind restrictive firewalls, don't have a net connection or Impulse is down, or being buggy, then you can't install your game.
Only 3 days ago I was going to play Sins at a LAN but Impulse wasn't working on my friends PC (it kept get stuck while trying to download the lastest updates). The games need to be the same version to play; because I already had the updates installed and he couldn't download them we were stuck. If they used a patch file system this wouldn't have happened. I keep my patches for games so I can get around these kind of issues without having to rely on the Internet being available / up.
The easiest way of having an offline Entrenchment install is to backup the whole installation of sins and entrenchment into a zip file. I'm not 100% sure that works though. The game might complain if it relies on registry keys that you didn't backup as well. Even if it works, you wont get automatic desktop shortcuts and you wont be able to uninstall the game from the Windows XP "Add or Remove Programs" window (as there wont be an entry for sins).
So to answer your question. That is how Entrenchment is different. Having an offline-installable version of the game is pain. Or to put it in other words: "You have to authenticate with the Impulse servers to do a clean install". This is not the case with the original Sins of a solar empire. I've been told by another poster though that Stardock plan to release a whole bunch of expansions on a CD at some point, so I'm happy. It just means I don't get starbases for a while.
Copying or zipping the complete SINS/Entrenchment folder does not give problems with registry keys. Also, desktop shortcuts are easily made, rightclick>send to>desktop. Thirdly, without any registry keys being needed to even run the game, it's easy enought to shift+del the SINS folder you copied.
As said before, Stardock's DRM is one of the least restrictive forms there is, besides the cd-key/cd check thing other companies use or used.
On a side note, i don't think you bought GTA IV, haven't heard any of you about their retarded activation system...
Impulse On-line activation is a half-step less annoying than Steam and a full step better than run-time devices, I can no longer tolerate Steam running for games I happen to purchase from Valve, on-line or off-line. It might be ok for you, gentle reader, but not for me.
Once Impulse becomes intrusive that will go too, sadly..sigh..but as it stands right now on-line activation for install or patches is tolerable...like Steam once was. Games start quicker with no run-time DRM and I can choose when to run Impulse to check for updates, news and patches. I gladly picked up Puzzle Quest from Steam, but the constant "go on-line" demands caused me to jump space-ships to Stardock for Puzzle Quest Galactrix.
What's much more troubling for gamers and developers is the fundamental head-butt that DRM puts up against the First Sale Doctrine. The Supreme Court decided in the favor of the cnsumer 100 years ago, but who knows what the mood of the courts is today? It's a fascinating topic about one of the very fundamental subjects of transactional business: what can I do what what I bought and who has the authority to restrict what I can do?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_first_sale
sorry. but thats not IC or SD fault. talk to your banks.
i noticed some said you need Impulse running in the background to play games thats incorrect (steam you do tho) Impulse is like EA download manager and installs direct to your HDD and doesnt require the downloading program on in the background due to it install into the game folder and create and EXE also check your all program section its there and if you have vista just click the games option in your start section and it will show there impulse allows for updates you do not need it to play the game
Myabe it's just me - but this DRM istuff is getting a bit tiring.
You wanna do a personal boycott of a $10 addon for game just because you can't give a copy of it to your friend for free, then go ahead.
The point of running a business is, as I understand it, to make money. With today's technology, we can basically duplicate a single copy of a digital product into millions with minimal effort.
IMHO, you can't really have no protections at all. While I'm against some of the more draconian forms of DRM that hurt the user, I can totally understand having a basic "keep the honest people honest" form of DRM.
So honestly - I'm not gonna lose any sleep just because somebody wants to take the extreme position that we should be able to just duplicate as we please with no respect at all for the business that spent plenty of time and money to create a product.
So all I can really say is to plan your LAN parties a bit better - give a few days advance notice for people to make sure they've got the same version of everything and to solve any support issues.
Stardock has IMHO some of the best support, and IMHO if he had chosen that option, he would have been able to get his game going pretty quickly.
In any case, sorry to hear it didn't work well, but sometimes that's just the way things work in life. As much as we'd like life to be perfect, sometimes stuff happens. The code people write is not perfect, the Internet is not perfect, nothing is really perfect. We do our best to do things the right way and make sure what we do is as good as possible - but at the end of the day, sometimes stuff just happens. At one point or another, we just have to accept that, and not make a big deal about it. Send the feedback, call support, do what you can, but after that there's really no reason to make a big deal about occasional problems. Stuf happens.
. . . so enough about that.
FYI, as I understand it, there's an update coming that will allow you to sell a game back to a company, or obtain a refund.
I am extremely dissatistifed with Impulse. On my windows partition, I have Sins installed... but since Windows has mysteriously become inconsistent and screwed up, and is rendered inservicable, the impractical and time-consuming restarting of my computer from Ubuntu to Windows has become impossible.
Because of impulse, I can't run the latest version of the game with WINE. The Latest version of Sins has a Platinum (the absolute best! strived for in every game! It's the dream of a WINE user! And Sins is such a good game, so it's fantastic that it's rated as Platinum!) rating. All updates, however, must be done through Impulse, which requires Internet Explorer 7 or greater, which requires its own set of nonsense.
Thus, I can't play my game, and I am a very dissatisfied customer. The pompousness of suggesting that Impulse isn't DRM and that it's specifically coded so it doesn't run on linux is hillarious; call it DRM or call it "Electronic Priviledges Contol" or "Authenticated, Proprietary, and Restrictive Digital Media Updater/Manager," but Impulse restricts my usage.
Regardless of any of your valid views, I CANNOT PLAY SINS OF A SOLAR EMPIRE ON MY COMPUTER, ALTHOUGH I HAVE PAID FOR IT.
so... FIX WINDOWS INSTEAD OF BLAMING SD FOR NOT RUNNING ON AN UNSUPPORTED PLATFORM.
geez whine is right.
im so tired of people blaming everyone else for their problems. its M$ fault for IE7, its SD fault for Impulse, its IC fault for minidumps. this is completely stupid. quit trying to be soooo cheap that you have to run Linux instead of a legal version of Windows. if you can't take incompatibility. dont browse porn all night and wonder why you are going blind and have system bugs that cause minidumps. if youre too broke to buy it, then do without until you land a job at a burger joint. i think they are still hiring.
aaahhhh!!!!!!!!!!
Why would I want to fix windows? The only reason I have windows on my computer is to play Sins of a Solar Empire
I don't know if you understood part of my post: Sins of a Solar Empire runs great on Ubuntu! Does it matter that it's "unsupported"? This word just means Stardock does not necessarily pay staff to ensure it runs on unsupported operating systems. Impulse does not run at all on Ubuntu!
I am not cheap, I have more money than most people in my age group. This makes my dissatistifaction with a company's products more important. I own five computers and own more than five copies of windows. I am absolutely computer literate, have built my own computer from scratch, am fluent in several programming languages, etc, etc..... by principle and habit, I prefer linux.
The issue is with Impulse, which restricts the use of Sins.
. . . and I can't use my digital camera if I were to accidently buy AAA instead of AA batteries for it. I could possibly use a couple of pieces of metal to "hack" it to make the smaller battery work in the larger compartment, but there's no way the camera maker would honor the warranty and replace it if such a thing damaged the camera in the process.
So I could easily say "regardless of any of your valid views," "I CANNOT TAKE ANY PICTURES, ALTHOUGH I HAVE PAID FOR IT."
. . . but somehow, I doubt that would convince the camera manufacturer to replace my camera.
You did that yourself by buying a product that, even though it could run on an emulator, was not designed for the OS you're trying to run it on.
Sorry, no sympathy. Just a good laugh .
So you can run SoaSE.
So if you can't run SoaSE on it, it's time to fix it. Reinstalling should work fine.
That's great!
Yes, as you just explained:
Bingo.
Because it's not supported.
That's nice, but irrelevant.
No, the world does not revolve around you or your money.
So use them for something other than doorstops and quit whining.
CS major, know several languages and programming styles, A+ certified, have built several computers from scratch, not impressed at all by people who think superior knowledge and/or skills somehow demands special treatment.
DRM means Digital Rights Management and it restricts the number of copies you can do through the authentification of your user credentials.
just have a quick test, can you buy the game and install it on various machines, like desktop and laptop?
can you make a copy of the original game folder, put it on a usb stick and copy it onto another machine?
can you run a multiboot installation and access the same folder, playing on vista, xp and probably even wine?
then if you need to update or play an online game does it need a valid user account?
if all this is true, and i suppose it is, then this is DRM i'll be quite able to live with.
true enough but impulse will get worse as time moves on
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