One of the things that has been driving Demigod beta testers crazy is that they aren't used to how Stardock does betas. A lot of them came from the Gas Powered Games community so they don't realize that Stardock betas tend to be very primitive.
With Elemental, we may drive the point home by having the first beta of the game only use the cloth map instead of the actual game engine for game play. The idea is, if it's a good game, it should be reasonably fun even without fancy graphics. Then for once we could get people to fixate on the key features of the game rather than piddly details.
The other benefit it would have is if we could make the whole game play on the cloth map too, people with insanely low end systems could actually play the game. Imagine people playing Elemental on a netbook for instance?
So that's what's going through our crazy minds today.
Why don't just tell us the truth? You don't want to give us the good stuff!
Give me my fix!
The main issue is to get an idea of the features and gameplay. Not that we don't hope and expect for great things from the 'close up' graphics engine later on.
Bear in mind many of the people here come from a background of 'Master of Magic' - a civ clone played in old fashioned VGA. (I seem to recall it was 320 x 200 - 256 colours). Likewise Dominions 3 is played mostly on the cloth map.
I just want to play ... please put me in Beta 0.
Would the beta have the unit customisation options ... ? That would probably be a major strategic issue.
I also Volunteer my services. Sign me up.
Haha, that's a cool idea. If it means players/testers will get more involved with the actual development
I hope it works out, good luck!
I would kill to get in on that LOL! The game is probably better in it's primitve state than anything else out right now....except for GalCiv 2 of course
It sounds very reasonable to roll out beta code chunks in major phases--I can't quickly think of a better way to keep volunteer feedback focused on the code chunk you want to hear from them about.
I also heartily endorse the idea of carrying on the GalCiv tradition of insanely good support for old/weak/scoffed-at systems. I had tons of fun with GC2 long before I ran it on hardware that actually met the formal sys reqs.
I REALLY like this idea, but people would have to know about it first. This would also allow me to play the game on my fancy-ass laptop at home, while having it playable fully at work. If Elemental draws a lot of new people in, they're going to know about the early idea, and view it as "the game is out now", and they might end up disappointed.
The gameplay is what needs to be focused on first, since a LOT can go wrong with that, due to some of the ambitious ideas you have. It's a lot easier to improve graphics down the road like you did with GC2. I'm probably more worried then most about this, but I think that's due to my expectations being insane, which Stardock has earned.
That means beta before June, right? Right? In this moment, the only game that could make me leave DoW2 would be this one (or Demigod if i could ever make it work ).
In any case... NEW PIC!!! YAY???!!! And i'm fine starting with only the cloth map. It'll be quite interesting and the best way to make sure it gets properly tested.
I couldn't agree more. Graphics enhance a game but they won't make a crappy game good. In the past I've played and enjoyed text only MUDs and roguelikes so a game with "only" a cloth map wouldn't bother me one bit. Of course, that isn't to say that I won't appreciate the extra graphics that will be present.
I'm down with that. I agree, it should be fun from the cloth map. In fact, I don't see what you couldn't do from the cloth map anyway, I mean its a TBS game! besides, I think the cloth map looks like 'good graphics'. Just because its 2D doesn't mean the graphics are bad. It still in a high resolution and at 60 fps right? That's good in my book.
So... what is this I hear about Alphas? Do we get to see something in action before June? *leans closer*
Frogboy... you said in the demigod forums that you would make the beta for Elemental 'not fun'... I don't think just making it all on a cloth map rather than in full 3D is making it not fun. I play "Master of Magic" for crying out load. Surely its not going to be a step down from those graphics.
*added note: in case you didn't know. Master of Magic is not 3D but is still VERY fun. Better than most modern game's I'd say*
I think we are in the minority when we say that we would be more than happy to test the game using the cloth map, but then again how many people actually join betas? I hope that this beta process is as great as GalCiv2's. Elemental is the only game that is forcing me to keep windows as a dual boot option. I'm sure this game will play great!
now this is a line i have wanted to hear from a game dev for many, many yearsif we can join in on this beta 0 sign me right up!
Sounds like a good idea! I for one want all the cool concepts tested and not just the leetle details
Yeah, forget the graphics! I mean, the beta testing is to figure out what is wrong with the gameplay anyways, right? If you get the gameplay figured out than you can always add graphics later!
(My comment might be slightly biased because my computer is almost as bad as a netbook!)
I want eye candy.So bad idea.
You have my full support, Brad. Sounds like a great idea and a good way to flesh out problems with the cloth map concept.
Another idea for you- how about doing the converse as a beta? For example, can you play the game without the cloth map? Maybe that's not possible, but it would also help to flesh out the details and see how useful/good the detailed view it.
Oh, and thanks for the update. It's been a while (and I'm sure that has to do with Demigod).
I don't know what policies there are about multiple instalations of 1 purchased game, but just to make it stated.
This means I WILL be installing at least 2 copies of the beta. So that I can test it on my SH*ty laptop for testing purposes. Right now I play dos-box games on it (namely MoM) and if you guys are actually able to replace MoM in that aspect as well, (will work on my laptop) you will be my heroes.
(If its perfered I will buy a 2nd copy of the retail. I kinda hope to have the situation addressed though)
I'll play with ASCII graphics. The more eye candy the better, but I just want it on my hard drive.
So cloth map = no tactical combat I guess? Does that mean combatr is going to be very GalCiv 2 ish where things are going to play out pretty much the same whether you just let it happen or you give orders to units? I hope not, I want the tactical game to make a difference...
Thanks for the screenie!
If you would kill to get into the beta, you might as well pre-order now. Assuming of course that a life is worth more than$49.95 to you
(pre-order gives you beta, in case you didn't know )
Well there is some talk about alpha something or other. A "pre-beta", "alpha?", or "beta-0" as it were. We don't really have much info on it other than apparently it might exist and not everybody who pre-order is guarenteed to get in the way the betas are.
@stowemobile - well you should participate in my contest. If this alpha? entry is karma based, it may be the karma boost you need to ensure you get in. And you won't have to kill anybody either, just do something fun and exciting (please don't kill people. That would be the wrong message)
Sounds like a solid idea. I like graphics but they aren't the main reason I play/buy games. So only having the game on the cloth map for a portion of the beta testing is a rather novel idea.
Sweet! SIGN ME UP!
I actually quite like the way Stardock does its betas. Other than that one GalCiv beta, that is.
I can understand why people have trouble grasping it though. If you followed along through the Demigod betas there was one update where the Torchbearer was "removed" and "replaced" with a General Demigod. If you're unfamiliar with Stardock's process (or early betas in general) you might assume that change is permanent and the Torchbearer is gone for good, rather than (presumably) just kicking back for a patch or two and having his shoes shined.
But I much prefer getting the next update to the beta and feeling like the game is actually taking shape, sometimes even in response to what the general public is saying about the game. I was in the alpha and then beta for another game that shall remain nameless and about the most significant change was it not crashing quite as often. Glaring issues with player abilities were ignored - and persist even post-release.
With Stardock there's a much greater feeling of "rejected" feedback being because the developer disagrees or thinks a different direction is genuinely better for the game. Not that they're just too damn lazy to implement something, or too arrogant to admit they're wrong.
If I could pay for Elemental now and get into the beta when it's ready, I'd do so. But being in another country I am at the mercy of the exchange rates. Without a solid start date I could end up paying $400 in local currency for the game.
I haven't yet decided if what you're creating is worth quite that much.
As for the idea of a "cloth map" approach? Why the heck not? I'd even suggest holding onto that idea and maybe reusing it at another point in the beta, if it's not too much a stress on the development timeline. It'd be interesting to compare the first "cloth beta" to one a month or two on?
Looking forward to the next Demigod beta and the inevitable Elemental beta.
Then for once we could get people to fixate on the key features of the game rather than piddly details.
Let me know how that works out for ya.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
Sign in or Create Account
