Title says it all:
Go for it people!
And for those who dont understand what I'm saying, read Hot, Flat, and Crowded by THomas Friedman.
You understood correctly. Cold fusion is *Theoreticaly* possible. How can fusion be cold? I don't know. That is why it is theoretical. Here is a solution tooverpopulation which goes with global warming: Studies indicate that Earths mass extinctions have occured mainly when the temperature reached a certain high. So, if we let global warming continue there will be a mass extenction event. Overpopulation solved.
Samurye.
In my usage I just meant as some hypothetical pie-in-the-sky future technology that solves all possible energy problems but the Wiki article gives a bit more history and detail.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_fusion
"In the broadest sense, cold fusion is any type of nuclear fusion accomplished without the high temperatures (millions of degrees Celsius) required for thermonuclear fusion. In common usage, "cold fusion" refers more narrowly to a postulated fusion process of unknown mechanism offered to explain a group of experimental results first reported by electrochemists Stanley Pons of the University of Utah and Martin Fleischmann of the University of Southampton.
Cold fusion gained attention in 1989 when Fleischmann and Pons held a news conference in which they reported producing nuclear fusion in a tabletop experiment involving electrolysis of heavy water on a palladium (Pd) electrode.[1] They reported anomalous heat production ("excess heat") of a magnitude they asserted would defy explanation except in terms of nuclear processes.[2] They further reported measuring small amounts of nuclear reaction byproducts, including neutrons and tritium.[3] These reports raised hopes of a cheap and abundant source of energy.[4]
Enthusiasm turned to skepticism and ultimately scorn as a long series of failed replication attempts were weighed in view of several theoretical reasons cold fusion should not be possible, the discovery of possible sources of experimental error, and finally the discovery that Fleischmann and Pons had not actually detected nuclear reaction byproducts.[5] Although cold fusion has gained a reputation as pathological science, some researchers continue to investigate cold fusion and publish their findings at conferences, in books, and scientific journals.[6] The field is sometimes referred to as low energy nuclear reaction (LENR) studies or condensed matter nuclear science.[7]
The majority of a review panel organized by the US Department of Energy (DOE) in 1989 found that the evidence for the discovery of a new nuclear process was not persuasive. In 2004, the DOE convened a second cold fusion review panel which reached conclusions that were similar to those of the 1989 panel.[8]"
Cold-fusion just means a fusion reaction that takes place without the incredibly high temperatures usually required (millions of degrees celsius). It still would produce an enormous amount of heat (which would in turn be used to run a steam turbine to generate electricity). So far it's never been achieved at all, although there was one experiment in the late 1980's where faulty equipment led the experimenters to believe that they managed to achieve it.
Edit: D'oh. Mumblefratz beat me to it by 7 seconds, and with a much more detailed post.
Actually he beat you by 1 minute and seven seconds with a much more detailed post.
Like I said very rough math but this is definitely not hapening in only 20 to 30 years.
[edit] That's not to say that it won't or even that it shouldn't happen. I think the eventual globalization of the entire planet is both a good and necessary thing, it's just that there will be "growing pains" for a very long time over this. [/edit]
Cold fusion would be nice, but hot fusion will work also. The ITER project's main goal is to prove large scale energy production from fusion is possible. http://www.iter.org/
The best part about fusion power is it has virtually no hazardous waste products and very low radiation levels, since the only radiation comes from the slightly radioactive tritium used as fuel.
That's actually not quite true. The deuterium + tritium reaction produces equal parts Helium and neutrons (in other words, every reaction produces a neutron), which will cause induced radioactivity within the reactor. Bombarding pretty much any material with neutrons has the unfortunate consequence of generating radioactive isotopes.
Additionally, even though tritium isn't highly radioactive, it's somewhat insidious. Like regular hydrogen, it's very difficult to contain and could leak from reactors. And, like free hydrogen, tritium easily binds with organic compounds and oxygen (resulting in tritiated water). And even though it's not highly radioactive and the radiation it produces can't penetrate the skin, if it's inhaled or ingested, or if tritiated water is absorbed through pores in the skin it is still plenty dangerous.
That said, the hazardous waste generated from fusion is negligible when compared to any type of practical, reliable large-scale power generation.
You know my theory? That cold fusion isn't cold enough. Instead of working to lower the minimum temperature required, why not try working down at liquid helium levels? The Hadron Collider is already there, working on superconductor materials. We already know matter behaves quite strangely near absolute zero.
The only catch is, the whole point of fusion is to create energy. If you're generating loads of heat, that kind of defeats the purpose. If I was the one researching it, though, I could care less--I'd just want to say I did it. Just achieve fusion at 2 degrees Kelvin and let someone else figure out what to do with it.
all about that fusion sounds actually not bad but as i assumed ist part of a future most of us wont live in in my opinion.
but what about another theoretical way to produce energy:
with the warm, inner of the earth. in swiss some research lab was working on something like that. but they had an accident some years before (im living at the south-western corner of germany where france and swiss are not even 50km away) where a earthquake was caused by that in the rhein-graben, a thin part of earth-crust between germany and france. it was not realy strong but since that accident i never heard anything about that again? i mean, for sure the temperatures needed to generate energy by turbines is that high, that it would need to dig many kilometers into the ground but... you maybe heard something about that ?
Fusion itself isn't really that hard as long as you don't have the goal of creating energy. All you need is a really big electromagnet. As far as the LHC... Its magnets use superconduction due to the large energies involved, but the materials actually flying around in the tubes are FAR from cold. Superheated plasmas in fact. Or at least... they will be... They still gotta fix it
The reason supercooling is used on the LHC magnets is because it is the ultimate liquid cooling system. First off, wires with lots of electricity running through them (and it takes alot to shoot particles up to near the speed of light) tend to have resistances, however small, which turn a small portion of the electricity into heat, which is why computers generate so much heat. If this heat wasn't dealt with, and in an underground tunnel it would have nowhere really to go, it would melt the entire ring by the end of the first day. Supercooling solves the problem in 2 ways at once... First of all, it reduces resistances to 0, so no heat is generated. Second, it is extremely cold and so any heat which is there will be disipated very quickly. And since there is no resistance in the wires, it saves on their massive energy bill!
That's why I think attempting cold fusion at liquid helium temperatures is practical. The particle accelerators are already working in that space, researching materials, etc., so it makes sense. I don't care that much about the colliding protons itself (other than the fact that you have several world-class quantum physicists at your fingertips). I just care about those superconducting coils.
There's a reason why the SuperCollider was funded by the DoE.
That so-called doco was a fake.
Damn, this is what happens when I take a day to do other things.
OK I'll take it.
That's at current use. To do as you are proposing would increase use rate dozens of times over. If you tried to use that to supply the entire energy supply for the world, think more in the range of 10 years to exhaust the supply.
True, but you are discounting two enormous factors. One, much of the technology used in modern globalization did not exist when the first waves occurred. Without modern telecom systems, we wouldn't be exporting call center jobs to India. Second, it's a chain reaction. There are now more high SOL populations chasing the cheap labor, and as the labor costs rise, that demand will move on. While 20 years is a low estimate, 50 is not out of the realm of possibility.
Also, you can't consider the end point to be when change reaches 100% of the population. There are areas in the US where the last 50 years have had only minimal impact. For that matter, we are one of the slowest developed countries in terms of internet access, despite most of the technology being developed here.
"The world's present measured resources of uranium, economically recoverable at a price of USD$130/kg, are enough to last for some 80 years at current consumption.
In 1983, physicist Bernard Cohen proposed that the world supply of uranium is effectively inexhaustible, and could therefore be considered a form of renewable energy. He claims that fast breeder reactors, fueled by naturally-replenished uranium extracted from seawater, could supply energy at least as long as the sun's expected remaining lifespan of five billion years. These reactors use uranium-238, which is more common than the uranium-235 required by conventional reactors."
So based on the above we either we have 80 years at current consumption or an infinite supply. In any case as others mentioned and I acknowledged, the idea of turning a switch and assuming that suddenly all electricity on the planet would be generated from nuclear and all cars and trucks would be powered by electricity, is not going to happen. I think it's great as a concept but as a practical and political matter things are not so easy.
It is too bad though, that the world's major problems can't be solved with two or three sentances in a single paragraph. Oh well.
Before anybody tries to achieve nuclear fusion at near absolute zero temperatures, someone has to come up with a hypothesis of how it can be done. Frankly, I'd be absolutely shocked if it were possible to generate a net gain of energy by doing fusion at such low temperatures. The thing is, we don't have any problems causing fusion to occur. If you could get ahold of some deuterium and tritium it's actually not hard to build a shoebox-sized device that will cause fusion to occur. The problem is getting ignition - causing a fusion reaction that creates more energy than it uses, and then uses some of that energy to keep the fusion reaction going.
The temperature of the equipment in the LHC is the coldest environment known to man (even colder than deep space!). But the temperature of the colliding proton beams are enormous (~200,000,000,000,000,000 Celsius). That the equipment is so close to zero is entirely irrelevent - the only relevant factor is the energy (aka temperature) at which the actual collisions occur. But sustained, energy-producing fusion is not going to happen in an unmodified particle accelerator any time soon, if ever, because they are designed to do something very different.
And the biggest reason why trying to achieve fusion at near absolute zero temperatures is that the fusion reactants would have almost no kinetic energy at all. Fusion occurs when two atoms collide with enough kinetic energy to overcome the electromagnetic repulsion that tries to keep them apart. If the two atoms 'touch' then the attractive but extremely short-ranged nuclear strong force takes over and pulls the two atoms together - sometimes resulting in fusion, sometimes resulting in an explosion. But if the fusion reactants are kept at such low temperatures (aka energy) then the electromagnetic force will be more than able to prevent fusion from occuring at any significant rate.
Believe it or not, the DoE funds a lot of physics projects that are not directly related to energy production. However, the Super Collider would have told us a lot about the nature of the world, and it isn't unreasonable that some of that knowledge might've been applicable in various types of energy generation.
I just remembered having read this a couple day ago and I wanted to respond. The reason why no sane person would try to get rid of radioactive waste by shooting it at the sun in a rocket is because if something happened to the rocket before it reached escape velocity, it would be a major disaster. All of the radioactive waste contained in the rocket would be released into the atmosphere. If it happened at a low altitude then a relatively small region would be disastrously contaminated; if it happened at a high altitude, it would be spread over a larger region in lower concentrations. Either way it's a major safety risk.
Edit: Sorry, just realized I double posted
And an even bigger problem: we have litterally thousands if not millions of tons of radioactive crap lieing around everywhere. After a nuclear plant is decomissioned pretty much all the interior equipment cannot be disassembled due to it's relatively high radioactivity. So unless we start building SoaSE size capital ships just to dispose of our radiactive waste, its not goin anywhere anytime soon.
"It is too bad though, that the world's major problems can't be solved with two or three sentances in a single paragraph. Oh well."I'll do it in 2 words. Nuclear War.Global warming is fixed, since we will be in a nuclear winter, overpopulation is fixed because everyone is dead, and noone has to worry about globalization now that the world's infrastructure has been destroyed!
No, it's not. The particle accelerator altogether is irrelevant. The cold equipment in the coils is what's relevant. And the physicists working on the accelerator. But not the accelerator. You set about to discover one thing, you end up discovering something else. Welcome to the realm of research.
THAT'S THE POINT.
That's still thinking the old way. It's like saying it is impossible for ceramics to hold an electromagnetic field, because they're insulators. Guess what: the coils in the LHC are made of ceramics. That's what I'm saying: we're looking in the wrong place.
By the way, the reason those ceramics superconduct is because there are phonon changes in the electrons, causing them to attract to one another. In the same way, it is very much theoretically possible to invoke quantum mechanic changes to induce protons to attract to one another as well, thus causing zero-energy fusion of H+ ions (save the cost of supercooling).
Hmmmm.... This might sound crazy but, I have always wondered why we dont simply ship all the waste to Hawaii (my adopted home State). I figure the best way to get rid radioactive waste and other garbage for that matter would be to dump it all in an active volcano. I like to think of volcanoes as natures professional recycling agents. We could put the waste in concrete blocks and fly them to the top and drop them in and or build a conveyer system.
Note, I'm aware the impact such a think might have on the tourist industry but hey, I bet such an industry would bring lots more money and better paying jobs for most people there.
The underlying, and possibly worst, problem with radioactive waste is *moving* it anywhere. If the Yucca Mountain facility ever goes online, my quiet little town will see a steady stream of semis loaded with shielded waste containers passing along I-75, which directly abuts our local 'community' college. The college already does regular hazmat drills on account of the Interstate, and I don't much want to think about the cost of planning for the remote possibility of an accident bad enough to breach a container. Especially given the modern tendency of many parents to expect every school to keep every child absolutely safe from everything.
If we're to have any hope of minimizing negatives from existing, much less additional, nuclear power, then we need some radical innovations in waste treatment/packaging--possibly from a bit of cross-breeding between nuclear engineering and the fancy new work being done in materials science, e.g. those ceramic coils at the LHC.
I honestly don't understand what you're saying. First of all, if all you care about is the cold equipment it'd be much easier to just build your own supercooled super conductor than to use the LHC's... Also, if you meant doing fusion experiments with the equipment at the LHC would mean being able to use the physicists who work on the accelerator, that's just wrong. The physicists working with the LHC aren't just assigned a random research project by some administrator. They are all working either with a research group or on their own individual projects... They are doing research that they choose to do.
That's all true, but it's only a small part of the story. For one, the electrons in superconductors are essentially unbound. I don't think there has ever been an observation of a similar situation in which there are free protons floating around inside a material. In fact in order to create an analogous situation using protons instead of electrons, you'd need to create a lattice structure with negatively charged nodes - in other words negatively charged nuclei. As far as I can think of, the only way to do something like that is with antimatter, which is obviously impractical (impossible with our current technology, really) and dangerous. And it still probably wouldn't work because protons do not behave the same way as electrons. Yet another problem is that p+p -> 2He is going to require a net input of energy, considering 2He is not even remotely stable.
And yet another problem is, yes Cooper pair electrons are attracted to each other due to phonon exchange, but only weakly as a result of phonon exchange; the key word is weakly. Even assuming it were possible to create a 'reverse' superconductor with free protons, and even if p+p -> 2He were exothermic, and even if the heat generated wouldn't break the superconductivity, the probability of any of the proton pairs fusing would be amazingly miniscule. The attractive force in Cooper pairs is weak; the attractive force would be overcome by the electromagnetic repulsive force long before the particles could get close enough for the strong force to take control.
Don't get me wrong, if someone were to prove me wrong, or provide me with a workable hypothesis for achieving fusion ignition in superconducting materials I would be ecstatic. For one, if somebody pulls it off it would be an enormous leap forward in physics and would involve lots of new ideas. Not to mention the fact that if somebody figures it out we'd finally have our fusion powered world.
Well we already are capable of building containers that are effectively invulnerable. I was watching the History channel the other day and I caught the end of a show about... I'm not sure what. But they were demonstrating the fortitude of this giant barrel-looking thing (very big - maybe the size of a small train car). They rammed a train into it, dropped a giant concrete block on it from way up high from a crane, and tried to blow it up; and it came out completely intact. The problem I'd imagine is that I doubt such a container is cheap to build... But the point is we have the technology to safely transport radioactive waste safe from pretty much any kind of accident except the accidental bunker buster landing on it.
Or intentional "accidents". Or terrorist hijackers. Or asterioids. Or Nuclear War. Or Kyroge12.
Uhh, the problem with that is that volcanoes generally involve stuff coming OUT of a hole in the ground. What you want is a place where things are sucked into the ground, such as burying the containers in a subduction zone under the ocean.
The problem there is that those containers are designed for accidents, not intentional sabotage or attack. If a 80s era antitank rocket can penetrate depleted uranium armor (available on the black market for a few hundred bucks), I'm willing to bet that container won't contain anything for long after one hits it.
This is a huge topic.
I am still not sure who is right but I do have a few questions
#1: as there ever been temperature variation similar to what we are experiencing happening in the past? If so then it is possible that this is just a cycle.
#2 most of the CO2 that is suppose to be warming our planet will stop once we have used up our fossil fuel or am I mistaken? If so then before we reached the end of this century this will be resolved.
#3 In the end it all comes down to survival of the HUMAN race. If we warmed the planet (if we are the cause of course) we will die ior adapt. The planet will survive wehter of these scenario happen. It may take a millin or a billion years but life will come back on earth. It just does not need humans to continue. This I think as been prven before. how many species died before we arrived.
I think it,s important to save energy and diminish pollution as much as possible and this we should do as a matter of fact. not because we need to. I wish I could drink from any stream when I am thursty and I wish I could breath fresh air anytime. I think it's a logical step in anycase to keep our living area clean. In our case our only living place right now is earth. We do not have many options until we can if ever go on another planet. We all need to grow up. I've always thought that humanty is in it's tennage years right now. It's time to become adults and take responsibility. We can no longer afford the wars and pollution and destruction of our planet. Wether pollution is a factor in global warming is quite irrelevent. Logically we should take casre of this place we call home as a matter of course. If we do not one day we will wake up with something very important missing whatever that might be and it will be to late to fix it. Worse case scenario we all die and somebody else we'll have a go.
This is what I teach my kids. Clean up after yourself it started with potty training and cleaning their rooms. And hopefully it will end with keeping the earth clean.
My 2 coppers
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