In today's world there is little sympathy for political struggles whose primary weapon is unmitigated and wanton attacks on civillians. In fact Islamic terrorism has undermined the sympathy many once had for the Palestenians and their dispalcement from Arab lands and even here one may probably make out a strong case that the Arab governments were as guilty as any other power.
The breakdown of the cease fire was heralded by the rocket attacks from Gaza on Israeli civiliian targets. The HAMAS cannot claim that the targets in thweir gunsights were military targets as all the rockets landed in heavily populated civilian areas. The purpose was clear to wreak havoc in the population of Israel and the State of Israel responded by launcing a series of air strikes against HAMAS targets. Nearly 300 people were ckilled. It is clear from the footage released by the Israeli Ministry of Defence that HAMAS has hidden their rockets in highly populated areas thereby that organisation is guilty of using civilians as shields. The Israeli Defence Minister has pointed out that the primary objective was the degradation of HAMAS capacity to target civilians using their rockets.
Israel is showing great courage by inflicting huge casualities on the HAMAS and it is time foer civilised nations of the world to declare war against terrorist organisations, non-state terrorist organisations and it is time to extend the definition of terrorism to include governments that allow by default their territory being used for launching terorist attacks. Israel has shown the way and it is time for the rest of the world to realise that by finding political justifications for terrorism they are in reality only encouraging terrorism. It is time to say "enough is enough" and Israel's example is ceratinly a worthwehile one.
Liberals will cry out about the unacceptable level of civilian casualities but the responsibility for that lies squarely with the HAMAS which used civilian areas to hide thweir weapon dumps.
Like it makes a difference?
They hate because they are, at best, mediocre (J. P. Sartre).
"JERUSALEM, Jan. 4 (Xinhua) -- Hamas has eased demands on a ceasefire with Israel as the operation of Israeli army in Gaza Strip entered its ninth day, head of Israel's Shin Bet security agency said Sunday."
Know what the translation is?
Hamas is getting the crap kicked out of it (thank you G-d and Tzahal).
No.....not until they have been reduced to surrender and recognition of Israel and it's right to exist in peace.
Hamas has eased demands on a ceasefire with Israel as the operation of Israeli army in Gaza Strip entered its ninth day
That's impossible!
Military successes against Hamas only strengthen Hamas. That's what we learned from Arty.
I look forward to them becoming really, really strong, then. LOL.
Hamas recently complained that Iran remained so quiet over this battle.
Seems like Iran dropped the losers.
But France used the opportunity to get back on the good side of the terrorists.
Fallacy #1: Hamas is bombing kindergarden, they are, deliberatly, targetting civilian targets.
Think about it for a minute. They HAVE to resist. They see themselves as an oppressed people by a dominative nation (as they ARE) and want to fight back (isn't the duty of every citizen to rise up against oppressors?). But what means to they have left?
Not much except throwing rockets. Primitive and crude, "fire and forget" rockets with minimal guidance control. People in this thread have said that "they even have timing device to launch the rocket while they are away". Duh, it's called a "fuse". One of the basic in bomb technology. And until they start having high-tech weaponry except what college students could come up with homemade explosives ('cause those Qassad aren't much more advanced than the homemade rockets made for children).
These rockets don't have guidance system. The best you can even do is aim and hope. What can they aim, when you are about 20 kilometers away from anything? I doubt very much Israel give Hamas the location of their military installation. The only (ONLY) thing remaining are cities.
Even if Israel were to reveal the location of their military installation to Hamas, I doubt they would start firing there. And why should they? It would probably be either decoy, or a blatant lie.
So, if you get down to it, you can't blame any resistance fighter (who's right to resist is enshrined in the Human Rights) for doing the only thing he can do to resist.
Fallacy #2: Israel isn't treating the Gaza Strip "that bad"
Israel enforced a blockade of supplies in the Gaza strip for months. No fuel, no food, no medical supplies. They restrict heavily any kind of media access as they wish, so you will be more likely to hear in detail Israel's side of the story, since they have huge censorship policies toward what is said on their territory, even when it comes to foreign media.
Seriously, one side is in total control. I don't give a damn about a country that has absolute control over a territory. I have zero sympathy for the Israeli who are living in the cities bombed and get occasionnally injured, but their main worry is fear. They complain that they are developping psychological trouble. HOW DO YOU THINK THE PEOPLE IN GAZA ARE FEELING?
We talked about what, 150, 160 rockets fired from Gaza (numbers taken from memory)? You have any idea how many more shells and missiles and grenades and mortars were fires in Gaza in the past days? (not really, guess who refuses to say). With those people who don't have access to any sort of medical supplies, the state is crumbling and beginning to collapse. The rule of law is becoming weaker and weaker.
I realise people got killed on the side of the Israeli, and I am sad that it happened. But it's a long shot between grieving for those victims and demonizing Hamas. These people are trying to rally their supporter in a (justified) defence against Israel. Have you seen people in WW2 calling for "Let's fight the Nazi until they give up"? NO. In war, you rally by saying you will crush you ennemy. That's how you inspire your soldiers and give them faith in themselves, because you tell them you will win, and you will win totally.
The way I see it, Israel is in control. They aren't becoming weaker, and they seem to want to have the occupied population to bow down to them and accept the yoke without any protest. And anything that is aimed at fighting that attitude is decried as rascist or terrorism.
And one more thing: if you have Israel firing rockets inside the Gaza strip to stop smugglers, is it qualified a breach of the truce?
'Cause that's what caused Hamas to stop the truce. You really think Hamas simply started firing Qassads for no other reason than they enjoy seeing flashy explosion? They aren't that stupid.
So, Israel said that it wasn't a breach of the truce. Hamas said that it was. Who's right is irrelevant, but it's not just a stupid technically summoned by Islamic zealots who want to bathe in Israeli blood. It's a valid point that should not be dismissed so easily. But Israel being so unilateral, they just didn't cared about the opinion of the other countries who helped negociate the truce, and that's what led to Hamas firing rockets.
Drawing relation between Hamas's position about the breaking of truce and Hitler's view of genocide if downright dishonest intellectually.
Oh I dunno, maybe the Palestinians should ask themselves "why they hate us?".
Isn't that the advice Americans were given when we were attacked?
I can assure you, if Mexico was lobbing missiles at Texas there wouldn't be a Mexico for long.
Personally I dont care how they are feeling, most muslims only respect the butchers knife. The only muslims such as the Almoravids that showed mercy to those not of the faith were considered ignorant or even heretics in their time. Even the Almoravids later changed their ways when they lost their *ingnorance*.
Actually, they are.
They HAVE to resist. They see themselves as an oppressed people by a dominative nation (as they ARE) and want to fight back (isn't the duty of every citizen to rise up against oppressors?). But what means to they have left?
Ladies and Gentlemen,
Meet the anti-war liberal who claims that Jews must be resisted and that bombing kindergardens is the way to do it.
HOW DO YOU THINK THE PEOPLE IN GAZA ARE FEELING?
Should be similar to what they put Sderot through, except they don't have bunkers and sirens.
Maybe they'll learn now.
Good point.
I could tell them.
(Although we don't even hate them. That's why Israeli hospitals treat them.)
if you have Israel firing rockets inside the Gaza strip to stop smugglers, is it qualified a breach of the truce?
Given that digging smuggler tunnels is a breach of the truce AND given that during the "truce" Gazans fired MORE (not less or no) rockets at Israel than before, I have to say that is a stupid question.
Incidentally, the tunnels were not hit within Gaza but on the Israel/PLO-controlled border strip with Egypt. Unless there are European border guards there, Israel bomb that border strip as often as she wishes. Just like Hamas can freely murder people within Gaza without breaking a cease-fire with Israel.
We talked about what, 150, 160 rockets fired from Gaza
1730 during the "truce".
783 the year before.
179 in the year before Hamas took power.
1528 mortar shells during the "truce".
640 the year before.
238 in the year before Hamas took power.
And I don't care how insignificant you find attempts to murder Jews or how justified "resisisting" Jewish schools is. The 1940s are over. You cannot do these things any more without getting burned.
How petty and ignorant of you. what do you know about muslims and islam? Have you lived in their country? How many of them are your friends?
What else do you know beside the actions of their extremists on the newspaper, or the islamophobe blogs around the net?
(Please also count the mortars number)
But from the beginning of the truce in June, up to November 5th, the total was 65.
The firing rose after Israel attacked peoples in Gaza at the november 5th. So, until Israel actually attacked, the people in Gaza (save a few uncontrollable cells) seemed to keep their word about the truce.
So it's a lie saying that Hamas haven't tried to respect the truce, and that they have launched more rockets during the truce than before, since they saw it as Israel breaking it firstly.
They are people. Trust me about this, they aren't. They want to win, and you do not win a revolution with half-hearted slogans. Except for the most extremists elements (which aren't really under the control of any central authority, thanks to Israel), the militants tried to respect the cease-fire until Israel struct.
Proof that hope is possible
I don't believe the Israeli hates Palestinians. They are afraid for their securities, and that is understandable. But their government seems to try to put down any palestinian movement aimed at defence of their people. I can understand the Israeli's concern for security. I do not understand Israeli's governement obsession with absolutely wanting to have all Palestinian to bow down in deferrence to them.
On the other hand, I can understand the resentment of the Palestinians toward the Israeli. Have you ever been a member of a minority? A mistreated minority, either now, or in the past. Specially when the governement - and army - is controlled by the majority, and they used it against your people - rightly or wrongly, it doesn't matter -. It just carves resentment on the long run.
Guess about a thousand worse. They have to deal with overpopulation, no supplies of any sort, and at least ten times more missiles going over their head. With bombs thrown at them that don't just merely punch a hole trough a wall: the bombs Israel play with can level a whole building.
Am I supposed to feel insulted? Tell me, YES or NO: are the palestinian territories under military-enforced occupation?
Tell me, YES or NO: When a territory is under military rule by a foreign nation, is the population allowed to fight back?
If they aren't allowed to fight back, then please sue Poland, France, Denmark for their actions against Germany in WW2. Please demonize your country's origin right away. Please ask your governement to withdraw support to Kosovo.
Plenty I love history.
I m a "pagan" I am not allowed to be alive in most muslim countries.
Used to play DnD with one as a teenager. Asked him why he didn t mind the pagan theme, he told me cause he didn't practice his religon strictly and even agreed with me I should not visit muslim nations without keeping my religon secret.
Dunno what planet you're on, Cikomyr: The Israeli's UNILATERALLY left Gaza! HELLO!
As for the rest of your BS...please join your friends in Gaza...I'm sure you'll get a really warm welcome.
I lived in Israel for 13 years...went to medical school there and served as a line officer and medical officer in the IDF and I am here to tell you that you don't know jack about Israel, or the Hamas terrorists you spout off about.
Go live with them....PLEASE!
People do have a right to resist and states have a right to defend themsel;ves and their citizens. If HAMAs CAN FIRE ROCKETS, 6000 OF Then over the last one year alone then Israel has a responsibility to defend itself and that is exactly what it is doing. Now if that can provide political dividents to the Labor, Likud or Kadima parties it it for the citizens of Israel to decide.
I to once believe that oppressed people have a right to violent resistance. Now having seen the fact that terrorists always target inncoenct chil;dren and women and civilians I have come to realise that in the long run it is better to be free of terrorism and if the price is excessive so be it.
Now a point of histrorical interest. It is sometime said the HAMAS was once encourage by Israel in order to undercut the PLO and now has become a threat.
Compared to the kind of destruction now going on in Gaza, and I can tell with certainity that HAMAS will survive this invesion, it would be better if Israel goes back to its traditional policy of targetting terrorists all over the world and taking them out. International Law in no way prevents this.
But their government seems to try to put down any palestinian movement aimed at defence of their people.
It depends what you call "defence".
Firing rockets at kindergardens is defence against _what_ precisely?
I to once believe that oppressed people have a right to violent resistance. Now having seen the fact that terrorists always target innocenct children and women and civilians I have come to realise that in the long run it is better to be free of terrorism and if the price is excessive so be it.
The Arabs felt "oppressed" whereever they had to live with Jews.
They "defended" themselves not only in Israel but also in all the Arab countries today's Israelis came from.
At some point we will have to face the truth that a people of 300 million doesn't need to "defend" itself against a people of 4 million to survive.
Since no liberal would answer my question about where they were when Hamas fired rockets at Israel, I'll rephrase my question. If you don't care about Jewish lives, maybe you can answer this question about Arab lives:
Where were you when Hamas killed hundreds during their revolt against the Palestinian Authority?
Those were non-Bedouin Arab victims, just the sort you always cry about. Where were you when Fatah members were thrown off high-rise buildings and their families tortured and slaughtered by Hamas? Where were you when Hamas murdered Egyptian border police? Where were you when Hamas killed Gaza's Christians?
When the Arabs attacked Iran and caused two million deaths, I didn't speak up. I couldn't blame the Jews.
When the Arabs murdered tens of thousands of Kurds, I didn't speak up. I couldn't blame the Jews.
When the Arabs murdered hundreds of thousands of Massalith in Darfur, I didn't speak up. I couldn't blame the Jews.
When Hamas murdered several hundred Fatah militants and civilians in Gaza, I didn't speak up. But I blamed the Jews.
When Israel attacked Gaza, I spoke up. It was safe. Hundreds of thousands of others already marched under the swastika.
(Niemoeller reloaded.)
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