In today's world there is little sympathy for political struggles whose primary weapon is unmitigated and wanton attacks on civillians. In fact Islamic terrorism has undermined the sympathy many once had for the Palestenians and their dispalcement from Arab lands and even here one may probably make out a strong case that the Arab governments were as guilty as any other power.
The breakdown of the cease fire was heralded by the rocket attacks from Gaza on Israeli civiliian targets. The HAMAS cannot claim that the targets in thweir gunsights were military targets as all the rockets landed in heavily populated civilian areas. The purpose was clear to wreak havoc in the population of Israel and the State of Israel responded by launcing a series of air strikes against HAMAS targets. Nearly 300 people were ckilled. It is clear from the footage released by the Israeli Ministry of Defence that HAMAS has hidden their rockets in highly populated areas thereby that organisation is guilty of using civilians as shields. The Israeli Defence Minister has pointed out that the primary objective was the degradation of HAMAS capacity to target civilians using their rockets.
Israel is showing great courage by inflicting huge casualities on the HAMAS and it is time foer civilised nations of the world to declare war against terrorist organisations, non-state terrorist organisations and it is time to extend the definition of terrorism to include governments that allow by default their territory being used for launching terorist attacks. Israel has shown the way and it is time for the rest of the world to realise that by finding political justifications for terrorism they are in reality only encouraging terrorism. It is time to say "enough is enough" and Israel's example is ceratinly a worthwehile one.
Liberals will cry out about the unacceptable level of civilian casualities but the responsibility for that lies squarely with the HAMAS which used civilian areas to hide thweir weapon dumps.
Artysim:
I like a lively discussion. So does the IDF. I'm sure they'd love to take you along when Hamas refuses to stop it's rocket fire and they procede to pulverize Gaza.
They'll probably announce when they're coming by allowing the women and children to make a safe exit....maybe not.
On the other hand, if you're clever and brave you might find a way into Gaza and wait for the Israelis to arrive. If you stand out in the open waving an American flag I think the Israelis would honor that or at least be really curious...Not sure about Hamas, though.
Maybe you'd like to take an "informative tour" over there and argue with some of the folks you seem to think so little of they're the ones in the green fatigues who won't shoot first and ask questions later. Do watch out for the ones who look like sock puppets as they might not extend the same courtesy.
Some advice: Address the Israelis with the same attitude you display here...the "know it all" supercilious one, and offer to teach them about their history.
I'm sure they'll treat you well. Really well. Just as you deserve.
Well, for one the situation in Germany after WW2 and the allied occupation of it are completely different
Why?
Perhaps the family of the cancer patient who passed away after being denied entry would be a little upset with Israel? Just maybe?
I have no doubt about it.
They obviously expected Israel to help. And Israel didn't.
That's certainly reason to hate it, isn't it?
they might not extend the same courtesy.
If the terrorists ever shoot Arty, rest assured I will act in his spirit and explain that shooting Arty is "resistance" and that the terrorists probably had reason to hate him.
Turns out it wasn't just Israel that didn't help Arty's tool, the unfortunate cancer patient. Arty also didn't help him. And now they hate him for it, obviously.
That family could have taken the patient to Cairo. Wonder why they didn't?
The Shin Bet refused that patient entrance...not the hospital. Maybe he had some sort of security red flag attached to him?
"The Physicians For HUman Rights" organization petitioned the High Court but I believe he died before the appeal could be heard.
The thing smells a bit: There was no "miracle cure" in Israel so why there? Why wasn't he sent to Egypt and if only some Israeli Oncologist was able to treat him have the MD brought with meds to Egypt? Maybe Israel was damned if they did take him and he died or didn't take him and he died.
Naaah...I think that maybe the patient was being manipulated to cause a smear on Israel.
I've never heard of anything like that in the past, and I happen to know that thousands of Arabs from the West Bank and Gaza have been treated in Israel.
I happen to know that thousands of Arabs from the West Bank and Gaza have been treated in Israel.
Well, occasionally the Arabs kidnap an Israeli and torture him to death.
Different cultures...
A very good article about Hamas and the situation in Gaza:
http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/12/31/phares_gaza/
Soon enough Hamas and Abbas’s Presidency clashed over the future of the Palestinian people. Hamas (per its Iranian and ideological commitments) wanted an endless “Jihad” against the pre-1967 Israel while the PA was moving forward towards the two-state solution. In June 2007, Hamas executed a bloody coup d’état in Gaza: Hundreds of Fatah members and other opponents were eliminated and tortured. A Hamas “regime” was established in the enclave.
It's interesting that nobody cried for the hundreds of Palestinian Arabs killed by Hamas during their uprising against the PLO. They were people too. They had families. And in contrast to Hamas operatives, they actually tried to improve the situation for their people.
Terrorism has become the hated "T" word and after the Mimbai Terror attaks, many have lost whatever misguided sympathy they may have had for the Palestenian cause. Losing sympathy does not, however, mean that they do not have a cause. We have a fundamental disagreement on how to settle them.
First, what does Israel seek to achieve. I think Larry Kuperman has an important point when he says that the labor Party and Kadima are likely to bebnefir t from this attack on HAMAS. Is the air attck timed to garner votes in the election. I hope not.
Second, it is obvious that Israel cannot hope to destroy HAMAS and as I stated the objective seems to be degrade its offensive capability in a significant manner. And in this Israel will succeed.
Third, will the air attack follwed by ground attack help to bring peace. The answer is a resounding NO. The moderates stand to lose the most as they will be perceived as footmen for the Israelis.
Now the fact is Israel is showuing all signs of Imperial hubris in throwing caution to the wind and ingulging in indiscriminate violence. A few months back I would have said that is unacceptable but the War on Terror follows different rules as the terrorists do not respect the lives of women and children they target. So the humanitarian argument is humbug.
Israel has had a very successful policy of targetted assasinations and I think it is time for Israel to follow through on this.
Exactly.
Yes, I agree. But for some reason there was a major outcry about that policy.
Why would anyone want a terrorist killed?
Don't worry, Artysim...this time Israel probably won't stop until it's done. I'll light candles for that!
Humanitarian crisis? LOL. This time that trick/whine ain't working.
They want the battle to end, if Israel is winning, but the war to continue.
That's why "anti-war protesters" never protest attacks on Israel but always protest the response.
30,000 Egyptians demonstrate against Hamas after Hamas kills an Egyptian border police man.
http://www.sandmonkey.org/2008/12/31/30-thousand-egyptians-turn-out-for-officers-funeral/
The man died in the defence of his country. May his murderers go to hell!
And in Iraq a suicide bomber hits a pro-Hamas Gaza protest:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081228/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iraq;_ylt=AnWmJS5UrtY_IAIl9lD_KUBvaA8F
Cannot figure out which group he represented.
And Fatah and the Palestinian Authority are calling on Fatah supporters in Gaza to storm Hamas installations and say that they are ready to send security forces and take over Gaza.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1230111721802&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
I wish them the best of luck.
Indeed. Hospitals, ambulances and medical facilities are also just unfortunate collateral damage too, no?
http://www.phr.org.il/phr/article.asp?articleid=657&catid=55&pcat=-1&lang=ENG
Perhaps you should talk to the Physicians for Human Rights Israel and explain to them the error of their ways.
Also, please contact the United Nations and correct them on the obviously flawed information they are disseminating!
"Exact casualty figures are impossible to provide at this juncture. However, several humanitarian and human rights organizations including Al Mezan, PCHR, and UNRWA, as well as healthcare providers, have estimated as many as 310-390 fatalities and 1500-1800 Palestinians injured in the first three days. At least 32 Palestinian children were killed in the first 48 hours of airstrikes.
The Israeli attack hit all parts of the densely populated Gaza Strip. Air-strikes targeted a variety of public buildings, including mosques, civil police stations, universities and sports centres in addition to government buildings and military training bases. The IDF claims that all targeted buildings either sheltered Hamas forces or served as command and control bases, arms and ammunition depots and explosive development laboratories. On 27 December, an Israeli missile attack killed at least 40 people at the police headquarters in Gaza City during preparations for a graduation ceremony for regular civilian and traffic police. Many of the civilian casualties occurred among those living in residences within the vicinity of targeted buildings. In one such incident, on 28 December, Israeli missiles hit and destroyed a mosque in Jabalia Camp, instantly killing five children of the same family living in an adjacent home. Four other children were also injured in the bombing " http://www.ochaopt.org/documents/ocha_opt_protection_of_civilians_weekly_2008_12_31_english.pdf
On 27 December, an Israeli missile attack killed at least 40 people at the police headquarters in Gaza City during preparations for a graduation ceremony for regular civilian and traffic police. Many of the civilian casualties occurred among those living in residences within the vicinity of targeted buildings. In one such incident, on 28 December, Israeli missiles hit and destroyed a mosque in Jabalia Camp, instantly killing five children of the same family living in an adjacent home. Four other children were also injured in the bombing " http://www.ochaopt.org/documents/ocha_opt_protection_of_civilians_weekly_2008_12_31_english.pdf
Many of the civilian casualties occurred among those living in residences within the vicinity of targeted buildings. In one such incident, on 28 December, Israeli missiles hit and destroyed a mosque in Jabalia Camp, instantly killing five children of the same family living in an adjacent home. Four other children were also injured in the bombing "
http://www.ochaopt.org/documents/ocha_opt_protection_of_civilians_weekly_2008_12_31_english.pdf
This deserves 5 stars, Leauki. Cowardly, whining posers. They challenged Israel to "Fight Like Men" well, I guess the "Men" need a time out...LOL!
Not unfortunate at all...especially when they store their weapons there. Then, they get it too.
Why bother? I'd rather let my fellow soldiers do that....
The more that are dealt with now, the fewer we have to worry about later. The ones still hanging out in Gaza/Rafiach, etc. are potential candidates for The Darwin Award anyway. You won't catch me shedding a single tear for the snakes that shell schools, etc. INDISCRIMINATELY in Israel and then depend on people like you to whine for them. LOL....who cares if you or they whine?
Well who put the targets in those areas? Your Hamas Heroes. Now they're eating it...great. May they choke.
Well, I guess the old Real Estate mantra is right after all... "Location, Location, Location"...lol.
Guess they were too stupid to move? Or too cowardly or hateful to tell Hamas not to put their Weapons of Self Destruction there.
I assume evil Israel has been forcing Hamas to use hospitals as weapons caches?
(Isn't there a way we can blame Israel for Hamas' war crimes?)
Luftwaffe? Zer Vas no Luftwaffe! Zat vas der Lufthansa! The Jews bombed London!
Hamas struggles for the people. There can be no war crimes if you struggle for the people.
Only the Jews committ the war crimes.
On a more serious note....the whining has gone into high gear which means Hamas is getting it's ass seriously kicked (and hopefully killed).
I only hope Israel will ignore everyone and everything until it's done with them...or until they surrender.
Where were the protesters when Israeli schools were shelled?
Answer me this, terrorist sympathisers!
Israel is clearly not being a good Jews here.
Leauki....they're all singing Kumbaya and wringing their hands..."oh the poor wittiw Terrorists"...
LOL....they're dyin' by the numbers.
Btw...the Egyptians opened their borders to the wounded (you know..the "Humanitarian Disaster") Hamas answered that only if "The Freedom Fighters" were allowed through (i.e. run for their worthless, cowardly, murdering scum lives) would Hamas let the wounded into Egypt for treatment!
The cruds are holding their own wounded hostage...I love it! And they're blaming the Israelis as war criminals.
May Hamas be ground into dust.
The response has been quite overwhelmning. Now to some basic questions:
Is Israel justified in its air strikes. In so faa as the stated objective remains the Hamas it is justified. If HAMAS is so concerned about its citizens why do they hide their weapons among unarmed civilians. Out of the neaRLY 500 killed 25% happen to be women and children and this is costing Israel a great deal in terms of public opinion. Nobody likes t see chldren been carried out of wrecked building and dying in frot of TV cameras.
Is Israel's response propotionate. For every Isrtaeli killed the air strikes arer likking at the rate of 30 to 40 Palestineians. And so the arihmetic of the body count is not in Israel's favor. But I would like to ask what is a propotionatre rersponse to Terrorism.
Will Israel succeed in defeating the Hamas. The answer is no.
Regarding accusations of genocide against Israel:
Number of Palestinian Arabs in 1948 = 1,308,00.
Number of Palestinian Arabs in 2008 = 10,574,521.
Israeli attempted genocide of Palestinian Arabs over 60 years = EPIC FAIL!
Nobody likes t see children been carried out of wrecked building and dying in frot of TV cameras.
Hamas do.
That's why they keep children around terrorist bases and that's why they send rockets into Israeli schools.
Btw...the Egyptians opened their borders to the wounded (you know..the "Humanitarian Disaster") Hamas answered that only if "The Freedom Fighters" were allowed through (i.e. run for their worthless, cowardly, murdering scum lives) wo
There has been at least one great anti-Hamas protest in Egypt a few days ago. 30,000 people turned up over Hamas' murder of an Egyptian border police man.
Want peace?
Here's ALL it takes:
1. Hamas recognizes (as the previous gov't. did) the right of Israel to live in peace.
2. Hamas stops the murder-suicide bombing.
3. Hamas stops the rocket attacks on Israeli cities and towns. (BTW they kill women and children too).
This is difficult?
Why won't they commit to that?
Simple....their philosophy is to destroy Israel.
An Op Ed piece from Ynet:
Arabs must decideFarid Ghadry says Arabs must be ones to stop Hamas, which embodies everything wrong in Mideast today Farid Ghadry Published: 12.31.08, 23:19 / Israel Opinion During this Israeli campaign to silence the terror of Hamas, one can discern two voices coming out of the Middle East against or in support of the Gaza operations. The boisterous voices are those of Hassan Nasrallah, Hizbullah leader, who a few days ago, verbally attacked Egypt's leadership for not standing by Gazans by opening the Rafah border crossing between Gaza and Egypt. The attack was unprecedented in scope and intensity because it just fell short of asking Egyptians to overthrow the rule of Mubarak. It did, however, heighten anger amongst the Muslim Brotherhood of Egypt enough to incite them to rise against their own government. Other noises come from Damascus and Iran, where the "resistance" has its center of gravity. Both Assad and Ahmadinejad know that a Hamas defeat is their defeat. Those two have incited the Arab street in a show of force and complicity with extremism. And while many believe the fate of Hamas parallels the fate of Hizbullah, reality is that short of a total defeat of Hamas, not to exclude regime change, Palestinians and Israelis will continue to suffer the consequences of an election that brought them more misery than they imagined on that fateful day: January 23, 2006. On the other side, the majority of voices approving of the Israeli campaign are those who have remained quiet or convoluted in their objections. Many Arab leaders, intellectuals, businesspeople, and even commoners from Iraq to Lebanon, from Egypt to Morocco, from Bahrain to Yemen, believe that Hamas represents deformity of an Arab civilization, one that is in dire need of an overhaul by existing homegrown leadership in Palestine, Syria and Iran capable of that solemn responsibility. Many ask why fellow Arabs would support the destruction of Hamas and Hizbullah. The answer is simple. Both organizations, in addition to the rule in Damascus and Iran, represent everything that is wrong in the Middle East today: Morally weak organizations or states seeking revenge, extolling resistance, and abetting violence against those who have surpassed us in knowledge and technology. Hamas, Hizbullah must be destroyedOur only chance, as a civilization that invented Algebra and helped usher advances in medicine, astronomy, and literature during an era of co-existence with the west, is to re-create that co-existence. How could we do that if ignorance is our guide and violent men are our leaders? Witness co-existence by the fact that Algebra was invented by al-Jabr just about the same time the Jewish King Omri founded Samaria. How could Arabs and Muslims help their societies if their program for progress is built upon violence? When was the last time Hamas or Hizbullah issued their 5-year plan to improve the lives of their followers? It will never happen because the failed leadership of both organizations seeks power instead of duty, money instead of benevolence, and longevity in both instead of renewal for the good of their people. Hizbullah and Hamas must be destroyed and the regimes in Damascus and Tehran must be changed for all Arabs and Farsi people to survive and prosper in an ever evolving world timed in nanoseconds and propagating through quantum physics. Their poisonous rhetoric of violence feeding a frenzied mass of ignorant Arabs leaning on their extreme religion to honor their incapacity to compete with the West is destroying future generations of hopeful saviors of our culture and traditions. We Arabs must be the ones to stop Hamas and Hizbullah, rather than support their demonic and twisted logic of resisting development, enlightenment, and progress of the region. Even when development and enlightenment stare them in the face, their instinct is to destroy them pretending to safeguard their honor, the mechanics of which supersede all else including a happy life of fulfillment and accomplishments. So while we abhor violence of all kind, Israel's campaign against Hamas must continue to the bitter end not only for the sake of peace but also to help Arabs realize they have a choice: Destroy like Gaza or develop like Dubai. Will this happen soon? Maybe not, but if a wake-up call and a nudge, once in a while, to pierce through the fog of deceit perpetrated by Syria and Iran is what it takes to see the light, then we stand by the West and Israel in the only hope that an Arab Renaissance in the Levant may actually have a chance of resurrection. Farid Ghadry is the President of the Reform Party of Syria, a leading US-based opposition group to the rule of Assad and “resistance” in the Levant
Arabs must decide
The most vile anti-Israel propaganda I have heard outside the circle of confessing anti-Semites has always come from European and American "peace protesters".
The Average Palestinian Arab hates Israel less than the average peace protester in Europe who has never met a Jew.
The Average Palestinian Arab hates Israel less than the average peace protester in America who has never been to Israel.
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