I guess this goes here. So here is what i see in a normal multiplayer game.
1.Research carrier
2.Spam carrier
3WIN
This is what i saw when i played today and the scary thing? Most of the time its too effective to be countered! Lets say for a moment that I just suck and normally most people can counter it. That doesn't change the fact that it ruins the game for people who want to enjoy some actual strategy! I think that it has to stop. /end rant
Views? Opinions? Etc.
Play tec, get 2 kol's l2use flak burst
play advent get 2 (dang i cant remember the name lul) carrier caps, l2use telekenetic push
build flak for the same amont of supply he has carriers.
just cuz you can't adapt does not make it broken
That doesn't change the fact that it ruins the game. How do you fix that?(serious question)
lol, how does it ruin the game?
1.00 / 1.05 was just lrf spam, now a balanced fleet will take that out and you say the game is ruined. how?
as a vasari...
1. get a kortul2. get about 20-30 sentinels around that kortul3. His strike craft do nothing but fly around getting shot(weapons disabled)
Get's cool if you add some combat frigs with a marauders additional speed so the cariers can't get away and squish...
Worked for me before.
Grtz,Flipkik
Spam Carriers FTW
Maybe it's because I've been playing entrenchment and LF's actually stay within 90% of their attack range, but seriously, the amount of LF's you can pump out will rape his carriers. I don't know how someone spamming LCarriers wins.
u won't win with spamming carriers
Thing i am discussing now is how it ruins the game for people looking for a SMART and thoughtful game not just one player killing and destroying someone spamming carriers. I know as well as anyone else that they will lose but what happens when they end up on your team? Or when your facing 3 of them and you know that there will be no challenge at all at destroying them?That is my question.
In an upcoming modification I am making, the effectiveness of spamming will be greatly reduced when the ships begin attacking types they are not meant to attack.
The cool thing about carriers in 1.12 is that while they are very powerful, they can be countered fairly easily if the enemy doesn't build some other ships to support the carriers. Carriers feel pretty powerful because they are the ships actually killing your LRF's or HC's, Caps, Structures....but if the carriers don't have escorts, you can screw them up with the lowly basic assault frigate.
I know a lot of people don't like it 1.12's balance, but it still feels better to me than 1.05, which only required Assailants as Vasari, Illuminators as Advent, or Kodiaks as TEC. Combined with some support ships, there was almost no need for anything other than a couple capitals in your fleet. In 1.12 you truly have to build counters to what the other guy has.
I suspect at some point Carriers will get a small speed decrease so they can't kite other ships to death. I got to play Blair one time where I was running carriers in circles while fighting him and I think he mentioned it was a bit OP.
I have mixed feelings about Flak though...it IS effective if you build enough of it, but the problem is you then have a ton of ships that don't do much damage to anything other than strikecraft or long range frigates. On the flip side, if you make them stronger specifically against strikecraft, carriers will be very easy countered and no one will build them anymore.
In the upcoming modification I am making I made flak slightly more effective (30% more effective to be exact).
You have to be careful how you make it more effective in your mod. If you give it a flat damage increase, you risk turning it into a super ship. Flaks are already fast, heavily armored, and have a high structural value, and are relatively inexpensive. They have multiple gun turrets and can easily strafe their surrounding ships while moving. They are a lot tougher than people realize, but the one thing they lack is damage dealing capability to most other ships. Your 30% damage increase comes close to making a super frigate that will obsolete all the other ships before the HC.
Mind you, talking about your mods should probably be done in the mod forum and not derail the threads of people concerned with strategies in the vanilla game.
Carriers are easily countered. Step one, build some carriers (maybe about 1 for every 3 of his) and build nothing but fighters. Step two, build flak (1 for every 3 enemy carrier- minimum). Step three, build light assaults, and if possible, heavy cruisers. Your fighters and flak will drain his carrier's dry of anti-matter because he will continually try to rebuild his SC. Your HCs and LFs do the damage to the carrier itself and game over, you have air suppiority and you win. If he is purely spamming carriers, there is no need to build LRFs (assails, illums, and LRMs)
Cykur,
The flak frigate won't be able to effectively penetrate any armor besides very light and light. I made them utterly useless against anything besides fighters (and bombers to an extent, but fighters do a better job against bombers) by changing the penetration values. The 30% increase does nothing besides making them more effective against fighters.
Anyway, yeah, sorry for derailing the thread. That's enough out of me
LoL that was me you are talking about I believe, yeah i remeber your name and that game. I believe it was 2on2 or 3on3 and you were at the bottom middle on the map and u were TEC. I was Tec too and i used mass carriers against you. LOL that was a good game, but u have to think those carriers werent cheap either. Plus your fleet wasnt all that amazing with just 1 Kol and some cobolts. Also I had repair ships just incase you had some light frigates and flak for my carriers but it didnt seem to matter when they couldnt live to attack them long enough. Also that 2nd Kol lasted 10 seconds at your homeworld with all those bombers i had.
I think you are mad because it ruins your game, your strategy. You say you want to play a smart game, then do so. Others have posted how to counter carriers, use it.
Reason why people like spamming carriers is because in 1.05 most spam lrm. Well carriers counter lrm. Play smart. Change your strategy.
I've countered serveral people who just spam carrier. I myself will spam carriers, if they counter it, then I move to a new strategy. This game isnt hard. Learn the counters and learn to micro
So bascically, don't be a nub and use only carriers to attack a planet filled with flaks. KK.
I guess I was not very clear on what I meant by that, I apologize for that.
What I meant was that do you enjoy having a game where all people do is Spam carriers? I know how to counter it that is not what I am asking or saying! I don’t care if you can counter it so easily the thing is, most people don’t change tactics I start playing a game and everyone gets carriers and starts spamming them. I see that and counter it but they continue doing anyway because that’s all they know and don’t know anything else they can do. I don’t enjoy having a game where I am the only person on my team with a balanced fleet going up against a team that actually knows what they are doing and while I try to expand my allies are just building carriers while getting hopelessly destroyed.
Let me put it this way lets say for a moment that you play football and your team is a lot better then everyone else’s and first it would be fun just to crush the opposing team right? But for me what happens after a while is that its not fun and its just boring and stupid. Or you could have a carrier spam team while the other team is actually trying to build a balanced fleet and working together. So please stop with the its very easy to counter this you just suck replies. That is not what i am talking about i know that its easy to counter. I hope this clears up what i meant.
Oh and Stgray i don't think that was me i NEVER build Kol's NEVER.
(Also if I'm coming of as a person thats trying to act as if they play awesome and everyone else sucks thats not what i mean at all just giving examples of what sometime happens. In reality i suck and lose most of my games.)
As I said, make the flak effective counter to LRFs (like they were in 1.05) by giving them anti-light (not very light), 150% buff to against very light, and maybe slight buff to light frigates would be much better than just nerf the carriers.
By the way the flak frigate is essentially cruiser since it uses same armor (Heavy) It means light frigates will eat them hard.
Flaks still beat LRFs, just not as much as they did in 1.05. They are pretty tough, it is just hard to do a lot of damage with them very quickly because their firepower is split among all their different battery facings.
Carriers might have their fleet supply cost set too low.
Strikecraft behave differently from all other ships in the game. They are expendable. They cost nothing to rebuild. This gives a huge economic advantage to a carrier fleet if you know how to keep the carriers alive. And that's not too difficult with their massive hull and shields, advent especially.
Carriers also have flexibility no other ships has in the ability to choose whether to build Fighters or Bombers. They can adapt to whatever they will be facing.
It would probably be a good idea to increase carrier fleet supply cost 25% to reflect the cost of constantly rebuilding strikecraft.
I don't see the problem I think carriers are really balanced now. You counter carriers with flak and fighters and you use your light and long-range frigates to chase them down to death. I will admit advent has an advantage in countering and attacking with carriers since they move so fast and deal damage instantly.
Flak is a bad ship because it only kills Fighters and Fighters don't cost anything to rebuild.
Not quite, building fighters costs antimatter. Eventually the carriers will run out of AM. As soon as that happens, the rate at which new squadrons get build will drop significantly.
While Flak isn't a hard counter to carriers, they are in moderate numbers a valuable asset in draining the antimatter reserves of your enemy.
Antimatter doesn't count. The Carriers will retreat after losing their Strikecraft. At that point, every ship the strikecraft destroyed will cost resources to rebuild while the Fighters are free. Unless you manage to hunt down the Carriers they win the game eventually. You have to be really aggressive against Carriers which means you have to follow them where the player takes them. Which puts you into a disadvantage already.
I can only imagine what it will be like when Carriers can retreat into minefields.
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