So, you are saying that asking about missing items (like a manual or a license) from a second hand box which you bought is meaningless and arbitrary? Newbies may need the manual to refer and to read up on, so a missing manual is not trivial to some. Maybe to experienced games such as yourself, the manual is optional, but to a new gamer, it could be a big deal. So if you want to make points about greed and the moral aspect of things, you need to also consider others viewpoints, who might feel that updates are less important than a manual. If (and I hope you don't) think that only your viewpoint is valid and all others are irrelevant when you try to take the moral high ground about things like greed - then it would make you rather obtuse.

Stop changing the topic. Your opening post is about keys of second hand copies of Sins (which has already been answered "Yes") and not about the greed or lack thereof of SD.

Whether SD can fix it "easily" or not is not the topic - you are changing the topic again.

For example, if the serial no was faded, and you could only read half the numbers there, that would be just as bad correct? So, if the serial no is half of the license, then the account to which the serial no was tied to forms the other half and it was missing, that's like a faded CD key..

Thererore, as you yourself said, "the account that the key is linked to did not come with the game" hence you should complain to the shop you bought it from that the box they sold you is missing the account. You can tell the shop that while the account is not needed to install or play the game, it is needed to update it, and so it is important. If they refuse to assist you with that, then yes, you should (and you did) get a refund.

Conclusion: Your situation sucks, I agree. You should complain loudly to the store that screwed sold you the second hand box. For other stuff about SD policy concerning second hand sales and Impulse accounts, please go ahead and petition SD directly.

You amaze me every time I read your responses (and dont bother with the "you didnt argue any of my points" answer. Heard it already, still boring.) I do love the way your answers change the contex of every line without proof or direction.

Are you a failed polititian by any chance

Add to that "why is it the shops fault" because they are a buisness, they want to make money, they should have done their homework. Otherwise they just tried to make a quick buck -greed- on your behalf. You might not need to know about an included EULA but they get paid to know these things. The shop is the greedy corporate in this tale

epiclulz: I think you need to better define what makes an opinion or assumption and what is a fact.  You seem to believe that anything you believe is a fact.  That may not always be the case. 

If they don't understand the products that they're selling, then they really have no business selling them in the first place.

And it sounds like they agree and have since remedied the problem so all is right with the world again.

This post of yours made me lol. Hard. Rofl even. Seriously, learn the meaning of the terms you use before you use them.

I'd argue that it's preposterous for them to simply assume that every game is going to 'work' as a second-hand product.  Citing common practice as their guide is just as much a fallacy as anything else you've pointed out here.  As was noted before, this is precisely the reason that most reputable PC game retailers don't dabble in used products.  It's just not cost-effective to have to research every title (and more games than you let on will have issues with resale.  This isn't isolated to Valve and MMO's) and it's just poor form to pass that risk on to the customer. 

And again - according to you, they pulled the product from the shelf.  They know they made a mistake putting it out there in the first place without understanding the products' limitations, and they fixed it.  It's a shame that you, as an unwitting customer, had to deal with it but they seem to agree that it was their responsibility (otherwise, you probably wouldn't have gotten your money back).

Like Craig said, for developers to actively support second-hand products would be tantamount to supporting a company that's bootlegging their products.  Once again, in this case, the original owner still has complete access to the game and related support and by selling the disc, they've essentially made a copy of the game for resale which is of no benefit to Stardock.  We can argue until the end of time what constitutes 'greed' but I think it's daft to expect SD/IC to be working against their own best interests for the sake of people who aren't even their customers. 

Troll. Now I'm sure of it, beyond a shadow of a doubt.

You have often accused others of changing the topic and ask them to stop changing the topic, but you are allowed to do so? The original post is:

and has no mention about greed, or even SD. In fact, your original question is a valid fact-finding question. So, clearly, you are changing the topic - at least in your replies to me.

The account IS part of the game. It says so in the manual. See the word Impulse? Oh wait, did your second hand copy have the manual? You didn't say because you said that was a meaningless and arbitrary question..

Earlier, I asked several times, what is the name of your shop, you refused to say. How is SD/IC supposed to educate the shop employees then if they don't even know who the shop is? Wait, are you living in a magic land where SD/IC is omniscient and knows the name every game store out there?

You can remember that the store has pulled the remaining second hand copies of the game but not the price of the second hand copy? Funny how your memory works. It seems to be very selective.

I'm not shifting blame - never have. You need to go re-read my posts again.

What else is there for you to do? I've also said this several times - Email SD with a real email addy and say "Please allow second hand sales!". But in all the time you've spent posting on this thread, you have not done so.

You're just here to pick a fight. Go ahead. Fight on. The truth is as long as you continue with this unproductive behaviour, what you want to change - SD's policy on second hand sales - will not change. And with you not providing any details or take any concrete steps like what I asked/suggested to you, I think your behaviour ought to strengthen their resolve to not change.

Another long shouting match that could have been easily prevented by a note on the outside of the box explaining the registration system. I really don't understand why Stardock (whose licensing system is, IMO, very customer friendly and low stress) doesn't simply spell out that the license key is non-transferrable on the outside of the box so that no one in these situations can cry ignorance anymore.

Excuse me, you said, and I quote (post #202):

You even italicised the words "so in the original post". Are you trying to change your own words? In post #202 you say you talk about SD being greedy in the original post, but now in your reply to me in post #222, now you say "I was obviously referring to the second post". Geez, make up your mind already. I think your poor memory (unable to remember prices, shop name, manual included or not, etc) is beginning to affect your ability to reply coherently.

You ask about keys being locked in second hand copies in the original post, and now, as of post #222, you say the original post is now irrellevant - by your own admission, you changed the topic. The kicker is that you've often accused others of trying to change the topic, so I am merely taking a point from you. So it is OK for you to change the topic but not others? I see your sense of fair play must be like the AI on unfair..

Yes it is. You must have forgotted to read the manual. Again, Impulse - manual - RTFM. Did you even read the manual? Oh wait, I just remembered, smart chap like you with excellent memory doesn't think that asking about the manual is a pertinent question.

First, you say a shop is innocent because how can a shop staff possibly know about such policies, then you say that it is ridiculous to think that a game company is responsible for teaching shop employees their software's registration/update/etc procedures. So, if it is not the shop employees, and it is not the software developer, then it is what, the customer's fault? Which is it? You are arguing both/multiple sides of the coin here.

And incidentally, yeah, maybe SD might talk to the small shop on the other side of the world who have already pulled their second hand copies of Sins off the shelf - who knows. Do you work for SD and so you know for sure what they can/will/cannot/won't do? Or are you too chicken to find out the truth? Come on, crunch time. Go ahead - challenge SD to really talk to the small shop - tell us the name/contact of the shop. Let us see if you are just full of hot air, or is your implication that SD "couldn't be bothered" true. I don't work for SD, so I don't know. Maybe Frogboy/Frasers/etc will fail to talk to the small shop, and you will have concrete proof of SD's "greed". Or maybe they really will. Who knows. Question is - do you dare to find out?

As for remembering how much it cost - why do I keep asking that question? I want to know if you really bought it second hand or if you downloaded it off a torrent site. I don't know who you are, it is only right that I be circumspect. Maybe you can say that you don't have to prove anything to me (or anyone), but that's just the way of the coward. You level accusations at others, but don't dare to bring out your own proofs when challenged.

I think you are really a troll. A pretty good one, I will admit, but a troll nonetheless. Proof:

1. You will not take concrete action to resolve an issue even when the action has been suggested to you (numerous times). It's like saying the game doesn't work, and then being told to update your video drivers, but instead of doing so (updating the video drivers), continuing to complain that the game doesn't work.

2. You keep changing your points - example 1: first you accuse others of changing the topic, then you say it is unfair for others to limit the topic, example 2: you say how can the shop employee possibly know the policies of SD, then when asked the name of the shop so SD can educate them, you say that it is daft to consider the idea that SD might educate them - either way, no one can win an argument with you eh? It's your way, or the highway is it?

3. You accuse others (SD/IC) of various things (greed) but when asked for your proof, you do not deliver. You ask others to prove it when they accuse you of trolling, but when others ask your for proof that you really bought a copy second hand (like price), you decline to answer.

OK, let's say you win, SD/IC is a greedy bunch of immoral corporate b***s that just screw everyone over their truly dictatorial policies. And it doesn't look like they are going to change their policies based on your forum posts in this thread. OK. So epiclulz, what now? Ball's in your court. Are you just talk, or what?

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wtb ignore function on this forum