Is it really true that when you buy SoaSE and link your CD-key to an account, they stay together forever and thus screw over anyone unfortunate enough to buy a used copy containing that CD-key?
kruppe: your post adds notihng. Why bother?
Sometims the best thing to do is to
it did, i asked for an ignore function
now your not even trying anymore, but i geuss even the best run out of steam at some point.
well played you had most of us for a fairly long time
It's quite sad that this has gone on to a 10th page of replies.
Again and again, you claim the game is DRM crippled, yet no DRM exists. You can install and play the game. You don't need any patch beyond what comes on the original disc itsself to be able to play it. Sure, patches fix bugs, etc, but you don't need them to play the game.
Maybe next time you should do research into software prior to acquiring it. Or just stop being cheap and buy a new copy instead of trying to save a couple bucks. Buy a new copy and support the developer instead of just supporting the store by buying a used copy.
You say you cannot play the game at all, which is a lie. You CAN play it even when you buy it used and even patch it up to 1.05. You say that researching the game prior would not notify you of cd keys being tied to accounts, yet in less than 30 seconds I found several websites stating this by using a search engine for researching the issue.
As for anyone who buys a used car, etc, at least in that case you get an actual physical object. Have you ever needed a cd key to use a toaster? A game is data stored on something either in electrical form or pits/grooves on a disc. You can't actually hold the data in your hand, just what it is stored on.
It's not like cd keys or cd keys being tied to accounts are anything new. Ignorance is not an excuse as all you had to do was return the game when you found out this and buy a copy that would work. Sitting here and blaming the developer and crying about this crap is not the answer. Plenty of people have given you great constructive criticism in this thread, yet you just choose to ignore it all and keep bitching and sounding like a crybaby.
So what if it doesn't state it on the box. Does it say on the side of a car that it needs gas to run? If you read the manual for the car, then you find out it does, as does the manual for the game stating the cd key is tied to a user account.
The problem with most game companies (Including Stardock / Ironclad ) is that they feel they're being " robbed " when something is sold on second hand - not so!
Look at it this way:
Stardock sell 100 copies of Sins.They are now maintaing 100 copies of Sins (with patches).
Someone sells their copy of Sins to someone else.Arguments on the forum are saying "why should Ironclad support your game for free - you didnt buy it from them" - not so! Ironclad are still only maintaing 100 copies of the game, not 101.
This whole making an account thing, and tying it to your serial key is pretty much out of order... you dont see a house manfacturer coming in and ripping the roof off because you sold it to someone else. ( You cant even read the damn EULA until youve opened the game - and nobody takes them back after that anyway)
Its a great big scam really, no matter how much Stardock like to go on about how awesome and nice they are. (Could easily let you "release the key" from your account - how hard would that be ? not very)
At what point did the second-hand buyer's money make it to SD/IC? The original statement is absolutely correct.
Currently, yes. The original purchaser, regardless of whether or not he/she has the disc, is still getting full support.
The OP is suggesting that everyone who happens to get a hold of that same disc should get full support as well. If that were the case, then there would a lot more than 100 copies of the program being serviced.
You generally don't see anyone continuing to live in a house after the new buyers have moved in, either. The original owners of most software have very little preventing them from continuing to use the program.
Software isn't a house. It isn't a car. What you're buying isn't even a physical product (unless a few cents worth of pressed plastic and a jewel case are what you're really in the market for). For a number of reasons, analogies to physical products don't fly here.
The person who sells his copy of the game can easily pass that account information on to the buyer. You're right. It's not hard at all but it's not SD/IC's responsibility to make sure that it happens.
Look at it this way:Stardock sell 100 copies of Sins.They are now maintaing 100 copies of Sins (with patches).Bla bla bla
Ironclad are still only maintaing 100 copies of the game, not 101.
Ah, OK, so now all of us must bow down to your definition of "original post", "first post" and "second post"..
When you went from "original/first post" to "second post". Oh wait, you changed definitions. OK. I'll remember to change which one is my "first post" and declare all my previous posts "meaningless" when discussing with you the next time I need to change topics. I though the "Create Post" button at the top of this page was used for this purpose, but hey, guess I was wrong.
Which you have posted repeatedly that the questions are arbitrary. In fact, you spent more time posting "it is an arbitrary question" than you would have spent had you answered the question in the first place. Oh wait, you have poor memory in this instance and you forgot.
Wow, your common sense includes Prof. X's ability to read minds too is it?
Regardless, the question I posed in post #223 still stands.
Excuse me, how could I be getting desperate now, when in fact I have been asking that question for many, many posts back. It is you who have not answered it. Hence, now, the more you avoid the question, the more likely it is that you pirated the game.
OK, so that I understand you fully, can I take it you are doing absolutely nothing about this?
Again, where did I say I'm going to take action?
I've met a fair share of trolls over many years and forums, some a moderately capable of holding a reasonable argument. Personally, I think it is a bit of a mental excercise to debate against someone who 1. always wants to have the last word, and 2. is always right. Kind of like fighting the AI on unfair - except you really can never win
Of course, if you have good valid points, eventually trolls will end up taking positions that are absolute nonsense, repeat the same phrases that have no substance at all and even go back on their own previous statements/positions. Finally, it reaches the point where their responses are really quite ridiculous - this is because they are just trying to argue for the sake of arguing and their (once) valid (?) position has been lost completely.So yes, sometimes, it is fun to feed the troll and see where they go.
I must give kudos to SD for allow such a thread to go as long as it did. I think you guys are all students of Voltaire - "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I’ll defend to the death your right to say it." I think in some other forums, the thread would have been locked several pages ago.
It's been fun, I bid so long to this thread, and thanks for all the fish!
The other thing is tha even though a troll is just a troll the conversation around the troll *can* be interesting.
Yeah, well I saw in some other tech forums the mods maybe were a little quick oln the draw and quickly clamped down on F-words and were a little biased themselves.. One flame war I read reached the point where people were accusing the mod of being a troll! So, in comparison, I do think you guys do a very good job moderating the forums here..
My thoughts exactly, I think I rather enjoyed it myself too.. Jolly good fun, old chap!
Now, you seem to know car like you know computer game...
Some car use gazoline, other use diesel... some use electricity (Tesla electric powered roadster )... some use compressed air ( Tata/MDI OneCat Air Car )... some use hydrogen ( FCHV from Toyota )... some use LPG... some use 2 cycle benzine ( gazoline + a few percent of oil ), etc...
If you don't know the car, you can make mistake... if you make mistake, the producent is not responsible, you are responsible... same for the game... why do you complain here after having buy the game... what is not more easy to ask a question here BEFORE you buy the game ? A lot of people act first and think after... but the normal way is to think first and acting after... God have give us a brain, it is mean to be used...
hmm.
First off,
epiclulz, as valid as you may think your argument is, you are misguided.
I would highly recomend that you start and try to run a small company before you attempt to preach how things should be done. It is only when you are face real choices concerning profit and loss and managing for profit will you come to understand that companies are not faceless, soulless money-grubbing machines. They are often dynamic and people driven, do not dehumanize what you do not understand.
And a few other points for you.
The persons at fault for the situation you found yourself in with the game is,
1. Your friend. He sold you a copy of the game, he is not an agent of Stardock nor is he a licensed retailer on Stardock's behalf. He could (and did) sell you a copy of the game, but he could not (and did not) sell you the license that would have supplied the support.
2. Yourself. Hopefully this will teach you a lesson to allways purchase a game from a licensed retailer if you intended to receive patches and updates like everyone else.
I would recomend that you attend a class and come to and understanding on how licensing works.
Patches and updates are support. No ifs ands or buts about it.
Unless Zubaz, Craig Fraizer, Kyro and the unknown ammount of employees affiliated with Stardock are the most charitable people I've ever met, (in a pseudo kind of way, I am playing thier game) or they expect and demand a paycheck now and again.
You also seem to have difficulty understanding privilages, entitlements, obligations, rights and all that jazz.
I hope I can help clear a little bit up for you.
"Free" patches and updates are indeed becoming a gold standard in the industry. As a customer of Stardock I have recived them at no extra charge. Not once in all the times I have downloaded a patch or update was I ever required to part with any of my money.
This is a service Stardock has chosen to give to me, I am not entitled to it at all. I was entitled to reciving a working/fuctioning game when I purchased the it (this is why we have customer protection laws), but I am not entitled to any extra.
You may be unaware of this, but data storage and server usage costs a FOURTANE.
I am not entitled to having access to these forums. Granted it did come with the game when I installed it, but with one click any moderator can change, delete or lock threads or ban me permanently from the forums. There would be nothing I could do about it either.
Don't go waving "FREE SPEECH!!!!" doesn't exist here, sorry.
Stardock's obligation to me, a customer is to suppy goods or services upon reciving payment for such. I purchased a copy of Sins and a license from Stardock. It is thier obligation to uphold thier end of the deal (which they have), the privliage to use the forums and to revice supprort (again updates) came as extra on thier behalf to me as customer appreciation.
Feel free to reject me as "fanboyism" but when you do it would only would only have ment you have "fanboyism" and "satisfied customer" confused as well.
FYI Deisel and Gasoline are indeed petroleum by-products, but they are not the same thing.
Thier continued existence is based around helping the customers of thier company and to prevent expliotation of the company's product. Don't go crying a river if customer loss, product expliotation prevention is such a problem for you.
No you haven't but you have been carrying around what you think you are entitled to in your mind. I was hoping you to use that an an example to help explain to you that as a "second hand" customer, you have no entitlements and Stardock is not obligated to do anything for you.
How do you know that for sure?
What artifical and arbitary restrictions????? You got what you paid for, quit crying about it.
Which games? I would like to know, just about every game I have played has required me to have a CD key at one point or another.
I will make you repeat yourself as many times as I feel like. It will go to show you that no matter how many times you say it, it will never be true.
What store? Whoever it may be, I would seriously doubt they would have both a license for sale and resale of the same product.
Whoever sold you the game on the grounds it would work for you. He probably was acting like your friend then.
Yes they would, if they legitimately do buisness they would have known. As a retailer is is thier job to know as much as they can about the product they are selling. It would be like a McDonalds not knowing that they used beef patties on thier hamburgers.
Ignorance is NEVER an excuse. Get over it.
It is very relevent.,if you knew this would never have been an issue.
You got what you paid for (an actual working version of SINS). So why are you crying about it??????
If you should ba mad at anyone, it should be the retailer who sold you the game on false premise.
It's been said before, and I'll say it once (and only once) more. We offer lifetime redownloading as an added value to legitimate first-time customers. We provide patches through that same, existing system because it is dramatically cheaper (both money and manpower-wise) than dealing with standalone installers.
We're not stopping anyone from buying a used copy, but as with many used products out there (in general--and as time goes on this will apply to software more and more), a used product is not going to give you the same value as a new one.
At the end of the day, you get no more or less than what you pay for. That's just the way it is.
Not sure... if i good remember, it have already happen that Stardock have transfered the "license" from one previous owner to a new one...
So, it seem that Stardock is enough open minded to allow second hand product to have the same value that a new one... Simply need to ask it friendly and not begin make a 10 page rant...
Of course, for the transfer, you need to know the previous owner since it is these one who need to initiate the transfer and renounce to his right on the game...
Now about the epiclulz second hand shop... i don't know how they work by them but here, in Belgium, the method is define by law... people who deposit second hand game are not paid directly, and contact information is asked... once the game is sell to someone other, he receive his money minus the shop commission... contact information are keeped during 5 year ( by ex in case of stolen product, defect product, etc )... Now, who know, maybe the guy who have deposit the game in the store have rob a family house... due to Stardock system, these family will be able to download the game again and use it fully...
So, the Stardock system is not bad... it give you right, same if you loose the original... it allow second hand by transfer of license ( following a strick procedure )... nothing to complain about...
Let take again the car example... the car is the product, the car-key are the license... first owner sell the car to a garage without the key... epiclulz by these second hand car in the garage... and he wrote a long rant to the car builder because he have not the car key and cannot use the car fully... can maybe sit in the car ( single player ) but cannot ride away ( multi player )...
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