I know that the beta just came out and everyone is still finding bugs, but thats not all beta tests are for
about star bases this is just if you think that any balance issues need to be mentioned I for one think that the range at least for the advent starbase (i haven't played any other race yet) is way too small anyone can just go around the base without taking any damage sure i can defend all my buildings in that grav well but it isnt a fleet stopper you just go around and kill his other planets.
I agree with the Range issue, I had to MOD the gme in order to get the range where it should be, also the other thing that I changed was the number of fighters/bombers. I upped it to 4,8,12 for the respective levels, to me something that large should have hanger bays that can support vastly more than a hanger bay. I am pulling some of my thinking from Babylon 5.
First off, I'm trying to think about this in a purely theoretical way which assumes that it's only the one versus the other. that's just the way I think. Of course, this is hardly the case in reality, but trying to come up with all the possible permutations of fleet compositions and circumstances would belabor the point.
I must admit that I have not been entirely consistent in my views. Eventually, with enough research and upgrade slots purchased, I think that the SBs should be able to hit long range cruisers. Above, I said I'd like the TEC SB to be capable of gaining a missile attack that could reach such enemies. The Advent would have swarms of strikecraft, and the Vasari, from the beginning, is capable of moving into range. (I'd also love to see a "small" in grav-well Kostura EMP missile on the VSB. Adorable.)
Sins gameplay is based on a hard counter system and the fact remains that the antistructure cruiser was created specifically to destroy starbases and it should be able to do that, on its own(let's assume that the starbase does not have strikecraft built, like a siege frigate vs. a undefended planet). It may take a long time, esp at the current damage values, but it should happen.
Basically, what would the point be in a counter that is itself countered by the thing it was created to counter? You'd have a boring stalemate.
Jumping back into reality, the fact that an enemy might bring a fleet is what the starbase is for. While the starbase chews through the enemy fleet, micro some ships or strike craft around and try and knock out the cruisers. Clearly easier said than done, but that's the fun part of the game.
Jervolino, what range did you set it at?
More importantly, how do you mod the game yourself? I know how to use downloaded game mods, but not how to mod it myself.
Go to the downloads menu selection at the top of this screen and on that page there are links to the tools that you can use to do Mods.
The Only thing I would like to see added to the star bases, Is to be able to upgrade everthing you can afford
like you do planets. Better firering range or a strong phase jump lock. I've played all three races and why bother to
have vessari SB move? its rather useless. eather lock them in orbit or stay put.
They should be able to move because they are the masters of ppphhhhhaaaaaaaaaaasssssssssssseeeeeeeeee space.
Has anyone even noticed a change when you upgrade to the 2nd weapon tier for "extreme range"? I haven't and think that may be most of the problem, but if it is working as intended then definitely needs a range increase. I definitely also agree that starbases need SOME DEFENSE against bombers, and no hangar bays with fighters isn't really the answer. Flak guns would be great, even if it were the tier 3 weapon upgrade.
For mobility-- I like the idea of starbases moving, but extremely slow. I'm talking like 10 minutes to reach the opposite side of a gravity well. This way you can't really move it during a battle, but you're also not totally stuck with where you build it. Vasari bases can keep their current level of mobility (they look like they should be moving anyway) but if they're not already should be noticably weaker than the TEK/Advent bases.
For the 1st part, there is DEF if you do build the Hanger Bay within the radius of the SB. One of the upgrades for the Hanger Bay for the Vas is that it immobilizes strike craft. Now with that said, there could be some more buffs to help counter this a little more.
For the 2nd part, I can of like this idea. Let the Advent and the TEC be able to move their SB's but at an extremely slow pace. This would allow them to re-position the SB over a given period of time, but it would not help them if they strategized poorly. The Vas SB should maintain it's current level and speed tho'.
Useless?! It's EXTREMELY useful! For every other race it's easy to avoid their starbase and pummel the rest of the planet before dealing with it. Not only does this mean the Vasari starbase is never left out of range, but it also makes it extremely important for an invasion. Drop your fleet into an enemy gravity well, start building a starbase, and when it's ready you plop a few defense/attack upgrades on it and now it's an unstoppable planet killer. Then once you're done it's already there and useful for defense. I try this with other races but it means that the starbase is left mostly in a beachhead/support role and once you've liberated the planet it's basically useless at that point.
Flak guns should be the first weapons installed on a Starbase. Making something that expensive a sitting duck for Bombers (say, in an asteroid field where you cant build other defenses) is just pure madness.
And yes, Starbases need to have real extreme range weapons and abilities. Such as the Mass Disorientation of the Transcencia starbase should be extreme long range instead of a radius from the base to be useful. It needs to be able to stop phase jumpers and planet bombers to make a difference between having the Transcencia and not having one.
Speaking of the Transcencia, someone suggested an anti-Repulsion ability for the base to draw ships into its firing range. That's exactly the kind of ability that a Starbase needs.
They definitely need some more range or at least upgrades to range. Th Vasari prob don't need more range tho; seeing as they can move anywhere they need to go within that well.
I really like the idea of a tractor-beam module that uses antimatter and allows your starbase to draw remote enemies into optimum weapons range. Solves lack of range, solves enemies running around and avoiding battle. If you want, you can make them come to you!
Like it also and the ability to reposition a sb is good too
Just a few thoughts I felt like sharing on starbases.
Movement - I feel that starbases should be able to move inside of their gravity wells. Placing and upgrading a hugely expensive starbase and then watching as it is completely useless as an entire enemy fleet just waltzes right past is not exactly how I want to be spending my resources. As several people have stated, making them move slowly also adds some strategy to their inital placement but at the same time does not lock them down from being useful. To address the phasing starbases idea, IF under any circumstances you would want to move gravity wells with your starbase it should be disassembled and placed onto several very weak transport ships. The number of ships could be based on the number of upgrades purchased and should one be destroyed that upgrade would be lost. This should take twice as long as it took to build everything to disassemble and then just as long (the twice or so) to reassemble. This is neccessary as the starbase is HUGE and to take something that large appart and then build it back together should take a resonable ammount of time.
Anti strike craft defense - I ask what race would ever build a huge starbase and then leave it undefended against the smallest attackers? I believe 360 degree coverage with anti strike craft weaponry is a must at the most basic level. To balance it out, these weapons could do 75% less damage against any other sort of vehicle, I feel that this is fair as to use a real example; shooting an M16 at an M1A2 does significantly less damage than say shooting it at an F-16.
Range - Ok to put it mildly I feel that the range on these things just sucks. It does decent damage once it is close in but really? I think that it should have between a 25 and 50% buff to the range. This may be too generous but yet again, the space that a fleet can use to take a specific phase lane is fairly large and even if you slap it inbetween two phase lanes that are pretty close together there is no guarantee that it will be able to strike at anything (in those lanes).
Strike Craft Hangar Space - I like the idea suggested above by Jervolino to change the number of squadrons from 2 per upgrade to 4. I would however, only be this generous with the Advent and do 3 for each of the other races. Either do this or do all at three and give the Advent research to upgrade the number of fighters in each squadron, similar to the ability of Halcyon Carriers.
Shield Upgrades- I am not sure if these take effect, but I note that in the research description that shield upgrades do not mention starbases. I feel that if you research something that effects the starbase the research should apply.
As someone who happens to drive an M1A2, I must agree with this statement. An M16 bullet in the right location can cripple an F16. (Of course, we're talking about the one in a million lucky hit, but pretty much any hit will do at least surface damage.) There is no place on an M1A2 where you can do any kind of damage whatsoever with an M16.
I think the general consensus here is
1) Starbases need more range 2) Starbases should move3) Starbases should have built-in flak4) Starbases should have more squads5) Vas starbases should be able to be deconstructed and reconstructed OR Vas should get a torpedo cruiser.6) Players need a reason to fight starbases. They need to provide some sort of heavy obstacle for enemies. How about working in Phase Jump Inhibitors to their Defensive armaments upgrades? 700% at tier 2 and 1400% at tier 3. Wont stack with regular PJIs.
Heres my idea for flak. Each starbase starts with 5 flak emplacements. This is quivilant to 5 flak frigates. Updrading defense tech increases teh number of flak emplacements by 5. At max level Advent and TEC get 20 flak emplacements and Vasari get 25 (since they have an extra tier of defense upgrades). Simple. They shoot their respective race's weapons and have the same hit chance and deal the same damage. Charged Missiles might prove a problem, maybe make Charged Missiles a prereq for a starbase version that wont stop the base or increase range.
Starbases should start with two squads, except Advent which get 4. Upgrades add 3 for a max of 11 for Vas and TEC, while Advent get 15 (Since they have an extra tier of strike craft upgrades)
Upgrades need to be cheaper. Weapons and armor- ok. I can see paying 1800 credits and 400 combined resources to double my HP or deal an extra 130 DPS. I cant see paying the same sum for an extra trade link or three strike craft.
What about inside?
I'd also like to throw in that all of this that's discussed should only be considered in regards to a FULLY UPGRADED starbase. They definitely need to become more useful, but they should be able to easily make every planet horribly difficult to take.
Initial starbases should be moderately expensive and flimsy (as in won't stand up on its own against an attack any greater than a small fleet for more than a minute or two) but the upgrades you throw on it turn it into a force to be reconned with. All of this stuff is great and makes starbases very useful-- but it all needs to come at a price. Starbases should be something you decide to invest in at key chokepoints and important planets, not something you just slap on every planet and nothing but a very large fleet will take it down.
Balance.
so after reading this thread iv come to a thought. no matter what they do to the starbase they need to make them completely modable cause theres alot of diffrent points of view as to what people would like it to be
I think starbases should take longer to build, but upgrade faster. Also have higher initial cost, and lowered upgrade cost.
And I'm against the people that don't think you should use star bases as offensive weapons by building it in their system.
I don't believe any star base should Jump. What base moves from place to place like that? Maybe a little movement, with Vasari moving better/faster than TEC and Advent, of course.
Whereas I'm for them being relatively cheap initially and having expensive upgrades. They should definitely take longer to build, but in my mind the military upgrades should take longer to come on line as well. The only issue I have at present with the upgrades is that the civilian upgrades, while not necessarily costing too much time or money/resources, are definitely out of proportion with regards to the military upgrades.
I am, admittedly, looking at this more from a civilian perspective. While a starbase should certainly be able to become a defensive fortress, there is no reason why every single one of them must be.
They don't need to move if they have more range. The Vasari starbase can keep its ability to move. No jumping, please. Not even with deconstructing.
I'm not absolutely certain that they need flak, but they definitely need more squads. They might even need the capability to have more total active upgrades. As it stands upgrading the squads isn't worthwhile-it uses up a slot that you could put an ability in, or the (broken) inability to bombard the planet out of existence, or perhaps more importantly an additional weapon or two and drastically increase the hull/shields (something like 3000/2500 each)-three times for Advent and TEC, four times for Vasari.
Which would you rather have-an extra two squadrons, or 3000 more hull and 2500 more shields? How about an extra weapon?
That's what I thought.
That's pretty much it except they really don't need to move after 1, 4 and 6. The Vasari one should keep moving as an alien gimmick but the other two can just build more hangar bays instead of a huge engine.
Starbases just need more focus on long range attacks, abilities and strikecraft. They need to be able to mess up fleets that are trying to pass through the grav well. With a combination of a long range anti-fleet ability and lots of strikecraft.
Just a thought, perhaps the TEC base could actually be the most strikecraft heavy Starbase instead of the obvious Advent choice. The Transcencia could rely more on extreme long range psionic attacks and abilities such as Mass Disorientation and Meteor Shower that both need a significant range boost.
I think this list sums it up right except for #2. If we can do all the others, no need for starbases to move. A deconstruct ability would be sufficient so we can jump and move them, but they should not be able to jump or move in regular starbase mode.
If starbases can move and jump then there really is no reason to build fleets anymore. A starbase doesn't even take up fleet supply or Cap slots!
SB's SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO PHASE JUMP PERIOD!. Sorry for All Caps...but peeps need to realize and understand this concept. It would completely ruin the game.
Quoting for truth-and personally, when I say period, I mean you shouldn't even be able to deconstruct them to move them. Just set up a new one in the new well. Was that so hard?
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