I know that the beta just came out and everyone is still finding bugs, but thats not all beta tests are for
about star bases this is just if you think that any balance issues need to be mentioned I for one think that the range at least for the advent starbase (i haven't played any other race yet) is way too small anyone can just go around the base without taking any damage sure i can defend all my buildings in that grav well but it isnt a fleet stopper you just go around and kill his other planets.
TEC and Advent ones should be movable.
Vasari ones should be able to do phase jump.
BUT.
Then Vasari having multiple starbases in same planet may be overpowered (just to know all faction's starbase build limit is 1)
So, I suggest that if you use a certain number (I'd say 4 slots) of upgrade slots then the phase jump driver will be removed from the Starbase. This means 50% to 100% upgraded Starbase cannot perform phase jump, and multiple number but lowly upgraded Starbases would be economically bad and easy to handled by opposing force.
FFS guys, Vasari do not have dedicated Starbase killer.... It is actually Vasari Starbase itself (if you upgrade weapons, it can do some good amount of 'structure' damage.) So how about let Vasari players use this a bit easier? (Not trying to buiild things in enemy territory. If you fight with human player, you won't make it)
great pic...
I'm not sure about the range yet (havent tested it yet) but the build time has to be increased. One time, Advent AI tried to attack me with a starbase (contructor jumped in and built up). Luckily I got a big fleet there, but the starbase was close to be finished when it got destroyed. Starbases are not ment to be offensive weapons!
Let me say that again, because it's so unbelievable... Starbases have the same range as a regular turret!!
It would take six or so starbases just to keep one planet from being bombarded, let alone block any phase lanes.
The simple solution to this is again, make them movable and Vasari having phase jump with certain limitations mentioned above.
With their high-hp, longer range can cause some imbalance in certain situation (Have you ever heard about repulse?)
i keep an akkan with maxed targeting uplink next to my primary frontline starbase and even with that the range is not very sufficient.
I would suggest rather than having the Vasari stations able to jump, keep them as they ard and grant the Advent and TEC the ability to move but only when they 'shut down'. In effect, have their bases go through a 10-15 second 'shut down' phase before they can move, then not allow them to fire as they move, then another 10-15 second 'activation' period once they're in the new location. Vasari would keep their advantage (move at any time + fire as they do) but TEC/Advent would be able to adjust gravity well defenses between battles if need be.
Also, they definitely need a longer firing range. Seems like right now they're basically big turrets. Advent one doesn't even seem to use all its weapons...
Maybe the other races can be given an upgrade that allows movement, at the cost of tactical slots. The vasari one would move by default, and with upgrades be made to move faster.
Also, if possible maybe starbases can be given AM, and that AM is used to move. When the base is out of AM it cant move.
no no no
the vasari starbase moving is silly enough
use the tools you've been given - minefields, hangar bays, auxiliary government, etc. before calling for radical and silly changes
Hi DeadlyShoe, I still remember you calling Necrons being fine in DoW forum.
So tell me, then what's the point of building starbases anyway if these are answer to block enemies' movement and range problem.
So I just don't build starbases, and go for full hangers and laying some mines around them.
Such a great idea for starbases, right? ;/
Edit: Oh, btw, Advent's mines cannot be used for blocking the movement. All you need is a scout frigate runs fast them.
Starbases need range increase, free fighter garrison (additional cost obviously). Yes, Mines and hangers and turrets are good to make choke points, but they aren't as powerful (or cool)...
I'd agree with a slower hostile build time, and maybe even a slower friendly build time. They build REALLY fast right now. I like the idea of being able to build one offensively, but it's just too easy at the moment.
I really hope they look at the range though. The biggest problem with the old defenses is that you could simply fly around them and flatten the planet. With a non Vasari Starbase, you can fly around it and flatten the planet.
As to the bomber problem, IIRC TEC hangar bays have flak now, so you could build a couple of those around the Starbase to help guard it. Of course a moving Starbase wouldn't do much there, but a range enhanced Starbase would. I really think a much longer range is the way to go. You should have to engage a Starbase in order to flatten the planet it's guarding, not simply fly around it.
One disclaimer before I post.. Ive not yet played as or against the Vasari in Entrenchment yet (my one game was Advent+TEC only)
I'm not 100% sure it's the best idea game wise.. but It does sound like it could be fun to let the vasari starbase phase jump - but only in an extremely limited fashion. I think it should obviously be a researched ability.. but give it an extreme cooldown - possibly on the order of tens of minutes. Since I've obviously not seen how long it takes one of their bases to cross a well.. it should be long enough to not allow it to just continuously move from one system to the next. A phase jumping starbase should be forced to spend significant time in each system.
Or another option: let the starbase phase jump exactly one time.
Basically.. anything to make a player think long and hard about when and where a base jumps (And give an opponent at least some chance to recon the thing!)
I'm sort of in agreement about the range of the other starbases. Although maybe some more time/experimentation with mine fields and strike craft will change my mind.
I tend to think that covering the whole well is a bit too extreme - an opposing fleet of large enough size should still be able to "run the blockade" as it were. However I *would* like to see a base at least able to harass any fleet arriving in its half of the well.
It also seems to me like starbases are a little underpowered once they do engage the enemy. Last night I watched a Vasari starbase with a lot of military upgrades (both weapon upgrades and at least 3 levels of defense, plus "frontal shields") lose a battle to a lone pair of Easy-level AI capships. (I saved it at the last minute by jumping a fleet in and destroying them -- I'd held off to see how the fight went) For the price of one of these things, and for being Vasari, I'd expect them to have some pretty serious firepower. As it is, the most useful thing they seem to do in combat is distract the AI ships and soak up damage. I found the non-military upgrades much more useful (and really nicely thought out) -- which seems wrong to me for this race. I'd expect a starbase built by the Vasari to be death on phase engines, not a glorified trading outpost that can stay alive until my fleet rescues it.
they had problems, but as always mostly people were just bitching
the point is that people are calling for radical design changes while seemingly unaware of the tools that already exist
advent: drones
vasari: movement
tec: auxiliary government
that doesnt even get into meta-factors like being a fleet resupply point or construction area or safe zone for planetary structures
how much do you really gain from glassing that planet when all of its orbital infrastructure remains intact and you've been dueling with the defenses and reinforcement fleets the whole time.
All this just demonstrates why it's a bad idea to start discussing balance after only several hours of gameplay
It's a BETA. The whole point of it is balance discussion. Don't be such a tool.
Regardless, yes I think that the star base should have weapons that cover the entire gravity well. If players want to 'Run the Blockade", they can, they'll just do it under fire. Like you, know, blockade runners...
"
All this just demonstrates why it's a bad idea to start discussing balance after only several hours of gameplay"
Most important statement right there. It's good to bring up ideas so we can pay attention to them, but really, imagine how our comments would look if we only played sins 1 time and then started commenting on balance. A week at least until these things have legitimacy.
Right now it's all initial impressions.
Well, at least with the Advent, you get mid-range then 'extreme' range weapons via upgrades, which suggests that they should have three weapons, each with a different firing range. In that trio, it seems like the 'Extreme' weapon should be able to hit nearly anything in the well regardless of position, while the mid-range one should be able to cover 1/3rd of the diameter, and lower for the close range. So, if the starbase was in close orbit to the planet, I figure the extreme weapon should be able to hit anything in the well, but the mid-range wouldn't reach the outer edge of the well. That would make sense to me, and I would be fine with the current designs otherwise (the weapons range tweak would handle the strike craft concern as it means the station could shoot the host ships).
Tkins What is it my dad says "if you don't have something nice to say then don't say anything at all" plz
also there is one problem if the range covers the entire well then all of the starbase counters wouldn't work as well i think that the range should cover about half to a third of the grav well so that they cannot go around but it also means that the counters can stay out of range and pound it into dust
8 hours here so far. I agree, that stargbase range is WAY too short. A maxed SB costs about $16400 credits, and you can still just move around it like it was a turret If only there was some movement inhibitor to slow ships down; put one or two near the starbase and the enemy ships move like they are in the mud. Perhaps make some kind of upgrade to Jump Inhibitors or even a SB itself.
Turrets too need more range imo. I assumed when I had my turrets upgraded they would finally be able to stop enemy ships from just going around them; nope. A Tech research (like turrets have to extend weapon range) is possible. Heck, I wish turrets got 2 more researchable tech jumps in range too.
Yes, build times need a increase, at least for weapons and defences. And I got'a say, I'm really scepticle about jumping starbases; in fact, I really dislike that you can build a SB in another persons Well; that seems like that the expansion should be called "Encroachment" not "Entrenchment".
I'm not sure what "extreme range" means. Maybe that attack has no animation yet, but I saw no indication of much of anything happening when I had it once the ships were clear of the other starbase weapons.
One idea might be to give the Starbases all Planetary Shields. It'd solve my issue at least (people can fly past the Starbase and flatten the planet). I'd still prefer longer range though. Missile Cruisers are going to take down a Starbase even if they're also in range of it's guns, but the silliness of a few Carriers taking out a Starbase while sitting out of range (or Siege Frigates flattening the planet while the Starbase floats there watching them) isn't cool.
I agree that starbased under default range should beable to hit at least 25% the grav well i mean when i place one new a jump point i'd like the foe to get hit by it a few times before fleeing.
-Gabe
As it stands right now, though, everything is a starbase counter.
I'm not sure what's so nifty about the new super-long range missile launchers, since any old LRM easily outranges a starbase, and doesn't take nearly so much micromanagement.
Everyone was expecting starbases to be killing machines, but honestly, I'm far more frightened of the endless expanses of ship-eating mines than I am of a starbase.
And really... make them all move? Make the Vasari jump capable? Please. Why do people come up with insane solutions that wouldn't really fix the problem when there's a simple one right in front of you: stop being so darned stingy with the range!
The more I play, the more I realize two things that just can't be left alone:
1: Starbases should outrange everything but the super-missile launchers (and each other).
2: There's just got to be some limit on mines. Five Vasari ruiners fly along with an invasion fleet, and even if you win, you spend the next hour cleaning up mines from your own planet. God forbid you fly into a system where a fleet of Advent carriers have been idle for awhile! At least the TEC mines cost something.
Starbases can be destroyed while still under construction. I did it last night.
The first time I saw a starbase I was scared to go into that grav well, but then I noticed that the computer (normal difficulty) had a starbase on practically every planet they owned. This was for both computer opponents on the same team. My AI teammate didn't make a single starbase. Maybe they were defensive or whatever, dunno.
But anyway, after encountering my first starbase, I found that they weren't all powerful. In fact, I don't think I lost a single ship in the attack... Granted I had a fairly large fleet with 13 missle cruisers. lol
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