I've been thinking lately about how turned off I am by RTS games, and why I love TBS games much more, and I made a rather stunning observation about the nature of the average RTS game: they're nothing more than glorified games of Tetris! Think of how the simple gameplay of Tetris begins with a slow pace, allowing for more careful decisions and placement of tiles, and also how it progress in speed and requires less and less thought and more reaction or reflex based actions. This is the basic philosophy of RTS games. Start out base building and resource collecting, then prepare for an all out clickfest in the endgame. No wonder I hate RTS games! They tease you with a strategic setup to lure you in and then all hell breaks loose and it devolves into who can build the bigger army and overwhelm the opponent. If only RTS fans would realize that they're actually playing a glorified puzzler, maybe then the industry would stop churning out so many carbon copy RTS games and we could get some real strategy for a switch!
This is the principle which underlies any attack against economic targets. Bombers often don't engage intercepting fighters or even ground-based defenses (even though they can); Submarines, convoy escorts; caravan raiders, infantry formations. The point isn't that RTS games perfectly correspond to these examples -- this is the trade off they make (more on this below) -- rather, that RTS games incorporate the general principle.
But you're missing the larger point here -- so what? Games are always unrealistic. Both TBS and RTS contain unique design elements which are guilty in this respect. Realism is only important because as it serves as a means of engaging (motivating) the consumer. In other words, appeals to realism beg the question of how much realism is valuable. In the case of RTS games, this might be a problem for you. You might think that it's too unrealistic, or unrealistic in certain ways and that makes it not enjoyable. However, that RTS games outsell TBS games by a significant margin demonstrates that this isn't a problem for most people. The point is that this isn't an argument against RTS games (simpliciter) but an argument against RTS games for people who share your views on realism.
If you accept that TBS-style pre-positioning is the ultima ratio of thinking (it isn't), then of course TBS games will seem better. I agree with you that RTS games place a higher threshold on execution and that this results in qualitative differences in the thinking involved. I disagree, however, that the thinking that goes into RTS games is "intellectually void" or "tactless" just because it doesn't make the same sorts of strategies effective. All of the analysis you didn't answer demonstrates why this isn't the case. Game designs sacrifice some strategic elements in exchange for other strategic elements. In the context of positioning, this means that positioning in an RTS must anticipate the possibility of harassment. Generally, it means understanding that strategic decisions need to be made within the context of the rules of the game.
Personally, I am a much better TBS player than RTS player, but when I lose (or win) it's not because I blindly performed some action, but because I made a series of critical judgments which informed that action.
Bleh not realistic enough? Go play Tetris then.
Edit: Bizzare double-post on my part.
That would be "gamist" not racist.
RTS games intorduce time so that you are under pressure to think and act quickly. If you are paralzed with in-decision you are defeated.
if you simplify games down to their basic actions, we're all moving squeezing pushing pulling and poking on clicky pieces of plastic
so all games are derived from baby rattlers
but are you going to quit playing games altogether because shaking a rattler is infantile?
no, because our rattlers are much cooler now.
I have to disagree. RTS is about making quick decisions under pressure. In a turn based game you have all day to fart around and can take 2 hours for your next turn if you want (single player anyway). Sure, speed at the mouse and keyboard helps as well, but any good RTS should force some "pressured strategic thought" on the players. Granted, sometimes the decisions are obvious (aka, I am being zerged to death, so I need sieg tanks pronto), but other times you have to quickly think about the best way to solve a problem or the best way to bring about your victory.
tbs is glorified checkers. glass houses and stones, pots and kettles.
Rock, Paper, Scissors. The ultimate strategy game.
I do like the statement that if RTS is glorified Tetris than TBS is glorified Tic Tac Toe.
But anyone who thinks every RTS has no strategy and is only about building a bigger army has no idea what they're talking about. RTS has important strategic decisions - tech up, expand, build army, ect. Than there's the decision what to build. If I build the wrong unit combination than I'm at and inherit disadvantage.
The great thing about RTS, imo, is that you can actually change the outcome of battle. In Civ it's all about luck. Am I going to win this fight with an 80% victory chance or get screwed by an RNG. In RTS its about your technique. Luckily. there's games like Elemental that have tactical battle, it's just not the same as an army fighting in unison.
Also, in good RTS there's many strategic responses. In Starcraft you can deal with enemy harass in multiple ways and a player who has a smaller army can actually win just by these strategic decisions. I also thinks it bullshit to say tactics aren't a part of strategy. It's a major strategic decision to decide what tactics will be used.
Considering what a great game Tetris is, wouldn't calling something a glorified version of it be a compliment?
Someone should make a Tetris RTS.
They already have, its called Tetris!!!
Dont be stupid. Tetris RTS? idiotic.
Now the real console players want FPSes. We need a Tetris FPS! Maybe give it some nice 50s retro chic... A little mysterious plot line. Unexplained events, thats sorta thing. A russian connection that shows we are resepcting the source material...
I think 2K would be PERFECT to make this game!
Think about it, there could be uprgadeable block weaponary based on the colour! You build up the blocks and unleash powerful combos.
Blue blocks would freeze enemys, red would set them alight, green posion... you get the picture.
Not only that but there could be a device to research your enemys, some kind of 'block camera' maybe.
Hey hey... I just got the name.
BlockShock.
You could make an RTS called Tetris Defender or something like that where you are building a wall to stop invaders. You would allocate workers and resources while playing Tetris on the side to determine how solid the walls the workers build are. (Tetris walls with holes and jagged edges will torn down more easily by the invading armies)
That is on to something there. Maybe some fog of war could be added so that you don't know exactly where the blocks come from, and you have to build light units to make the area clearer. Or units that make manipulate time, making the block fall down slower.
No no no, it just has to be an RPG like the Puzzle Quest series. Only instead of a puzzle game, you just play Tetris.
blockvision?
Want to see what real RTS is? Have a look at 300 actions a minute. Clickfest is what you get with RTS.
I'd be willing to bet half of those actions are repeatedly hitting things or with only tiny tiny tweaks. I'm sure competitive macro-intensive RTS games are "only" 100 unique APMs. (or at least, "sufficiently unique")
That is nuts. I don't see where the fun is at that point. You have no time to actually enjoy the game. I guess you throw fun out the window when making a career out of it.
Some people enjoy a fast pace in their games, and would get put to sleep by something like TBS multiplayer where someone else will take 5 minutes to decide if they want to build a maceman or a trebuchet and freeze the whole game for everybody.
300 APM = 5 actions per second
That is just rapid clicking. I would bet at least 1/3 to 1/2 of those "actions" were random spazzing, especially at the beginning when there is really very little to do.
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