Hey guys.
I havent had the pleasure getting to play demigod yet, but when beta2 starts i will be all over it. Im just wondering how this game matches up to dota. How similar are they in fact and in your oppinion what is the best of them? One of my biggest conserns is that i heard you can only choose from 8 different demigods opposed to 93 in DOTA. Does the increased options of speccing your hero even this out a bit? This is comming from a guy who has played +5000 games in DOTA so im really worked up about this game.
Ragarth, its 200ms in demigod by default - supcom had 500ms (which allows playing with everyone on the world without stuttering so it is a okay setting for a macro rts especially as it can be changed) and yes people really change it.
Warcraft III battle.net defaults at 250ms lag so Demigod has a rather low default value.
FWIW people do change net_lag fairly often, though when I'm playing with Germans we usually have to ramp it up to 250 or 300
p.s. move to North America kthanx
p.s.s. 'd!
TheBigOne, sure would have been nice if it was automatically adjusted at the beginning of the match depending on the pings...wouldn't it? ... For SupCom I mean... I know its 200ms for Demigod, thats why I said its not such a big issue .
Regarding the 250ms on battlenet, I didn't know that! That explains why I hate playing dota there and always head off to Garena (or gg-client for its old name)...Thanks for the info!
Ke5trel, i'm surprised you need to raise the latency when playing germans or any europeans... I always get pretty darn good pings there... I guess i'm lucky that i'm in NYC so i'm pretty close to them for a USA guy...
-Drexion
In response to the OP's question:
Right now, DotA is better. However, it's been around for a lot longer, so it's only natural that it would be. Can Demigod live up to or surpass it's spiritual predecessor / inspiration? Time will tell.
Yah alot of money got poured into running sweet sweet fiber across the Atlantic. The New Mexico <--> Germany connection has two thousand miles of old copper on top of it, unfortunately :/
Brought back memories of this old Neal Stephenson piece
Oh, your in New Mexico? Where in NM, may I ask? I spent a year in Los Alamos . Great hiking in that state!
I'm in Santa Fe, which is pretty sweet - excepting the 250 ms latency I get from Europeans ^^
Oh very nice, very cool town... Considering how Los Alamos had like ONE bar with all 40+ year olds, I ended up driving the 40min to Santa Fe alot .
Ohhaithar Drexion, you have Demigod too?
Oh heya Jack! Yeah, i'm in this beta too . Small world, lol...
Yah Canyon Bar and Grill, lol. It's no Apotheke
Well, I decided DotA vs Demigod is a fair comparison, but what we have here is a disparity in time. We're comparing a game that has been more or less in development for about 6 years, vs a game that's been in beta for like 5 months. So I decided to do some research on older dota versions to make the comparison more fair. Unfortunately the oldest versions of DotA no longer run on this version of Warcraft 3, so using the oldest version I can find that still works (0.96b of DotA All-stars [the current iteration]) I will now make this comparison.
Heroes:
Dota still has more, a grand total of about 36. BUT, since this was before the advent of -ap, that's only 18 /side (actually I think it's 19/17), and because tehy messed up where your indicator is, if you're pink on scourge side you can only select from the top tavern, so your selection is 5 heroes. Of these 36 heroes only 14 are still even remotely similar to what they are today, most having to be removed from the game for being either completely overpowered or completely useless. This isn't ripping on DotA or being bad at the game to say this, these heroes were awful, the fact they were removed backs me up.
Demigod may have less heroes, but they're definitely better balanced and at least you can pick all of them
Point: Demigod
Abilities:
At this point DotA had almost no custom abilities, 90% of the skills in the game were just straight WC3 rip offs (critical strike, storm hammer, summon water elemental, etc.) and there was a great deal of skill sharing between heroes, several heroes had at least 1 move EXACTLY the same.
Demigod has unique skills for each hero (except attribute bonuses, but whatever.), more skills altogether and they certainly look better.
Map:
Imagine the current DotA map only completely shitty, with terrain about 10000x better on the sentinel side.
Demigod's maps are pretty cool looking, but I find them a little cramped and a little too basic.
I'll say tie on this one.
Balance:
Three words for DotA: completely fucking broken. I dunno how many of you were playing at this age, but if you were you know sentinel won 85% of matches, at least. Conjurer, Old Stealth Assassin (death ward. seriously.), Old crystal maiden (although at this point she was a bat rider, wtf.) and many other completely rigged heroes made the sentinel damn near unbeatable. Scourge only had a chance if they used their own rigged heroes and then it just became a match to see who could exploit their rigged heroes best.
Demigod thus far has seem quite well balanced accordingly. There are some things I find a little problematic or unfair, but by comparison, it's perfect Point: Demigod.
Sound: I play with the sound off, haha.
In summary, Demigod is way better than 0.96b of DotA.
Now I can just hear the mobs out for my blood "DotA is way better now!" and to them I say "exactly. this is like 4 years later." Currently, I think DotA is probably better than Demigod, but lookit all the time they had to do what they've done, the mistakes they've made and fixed (anyone remember the Wind God?). If you could put up with DotA for those years of complete brokenness, surely you can bear with Demigod for a little while while they get their stuff together. I bought this game for its potential, not to be blown away in every aspect by the Beta.
This is one hell of an interesting thread.
As a current DotA player, I am very interested in Demigod... I was following this thread with interest:
https://forums.stardock.com/346156
But unfortunately Stardock felt the need to close it (why? this thread is allowed to exist...?) before any real non-fanboy debate got going - I was waiting for some good arguments of Demigod RELEASE (not old beta debates) vs DotA. Are there any DotA players out there trying Demigod willing to give a reasoned, logical and balanced view of the pros and cons please?
Second question: Having said all of that, Stardock's attitude has got my back up now and I'm also wondering whether to bother at all with them anymore I don't buy EA games for the same reason anymore, because their attitude towards customers stinks. Honest question - do we think Stardock is trying to shield their new "flagship" release from any reasoned debate in those opening days of sale? If so I think I'll give up with them as well
Well, is it normal to wait after post #50 to have a non fanboy debate starting?
Well, english isn't my motherthongue but I am not sure to have really found a reasoned debate in that thread. You have already said it was more a fan boy debate.
Aye it's a fair point... it was the only thread I could find that was trying to start one though (and in anycase that wasn't the reason why SD said they closed it... but I don't want to dwell on that - I'll give SD the benefit of the doubt, for now - I'm more interested in the game itself). I was still hoping to find a good +/- comparison of DotA vs Demigod with non-fanboy debate ruining it. I guess I'll need to wait for some proper reviews!
(EDIT: typo)
Well... arguments matter little compared to actual real world data. If a game is good, more people play it.. and if it is not so good.. less people play it.
As of now.. there's about 70k dota games hosted in bnet in 1 day and about 4k downloads.. Refer to statistics here:
http://www.mapgnome.org/browse/sort-hosted/all/1
These numbers exclude the games hosted in Garena which i expect should add up to another 20-50% of the total public dota games hosted in a day..
Does anyone have any statistics to share for DG?
The reason it was closed is simple: How many Dota vs. Demigod posts does the forum need? We already have this one with 192 comments. We didn't need yet another one. Particularly one that was, imo, started by a total Dota fan boy.
Reasoned debate does not start with someone coming onto a forum and having their first post making unsubstantiated declarations of Demigod's inferiority to their particular game of choice.
Demigod vs League of Legends thread anyone?
How about Demigod vs Chess?
Clearly Demigod was just as influenced by Chess - The Rook is a complete ripoff but the implementation of diagonal movement is innovative.
There have been substantial UI and AI improvements over standard Chess however Chess still holds the edge in looks with photo real graphics but the effects detail is woeful and the audio can be really amateur at times. Like Demigod Chess has no campaign component or a tutorial which seems to upset many but Chess has remained quite popular without implementing these features.
Demigod is a much better product when it comes to finding multiplayer games. There is support for more than 2 players as well as matchmaking features that are clearly superior to sitting in a park and setting up a board.
The Queen in Chess is seriously overpowered and has a cross the board snipe like Regulus though she exposes herself to do so. The Knight possess Sedna's pounce ability which can be handy in tight spaces. The Bishop could probably benefit from Oak's ability to regenerate Pawns.
All in all Demigod contains features that are familiar to diehard Chess fans but may leave them ultimately feeling like they have to compare every single @#%ing detail to the game they know instead of accepting it in its own right.
Up Next - I compare Demigod to Dune 2 and look at how the title complelely fails to implement harvester management and base construction.
Now demigod has been released, we can speak about the balance of 8 demigods over balancing 90+ heroes.
It should be easier to balance 8 units instead of 90+. But, the facts are showing the opposite.
I just played a game, and an unclean beast lvl 2 was getting a tower down (not an archer tower) and got it alone (while attacked by a flow of creeps and 1 DG : me).
I don't know what items this UB got, but seems UB means more über than unclean beast.
Another game, same case : that time, it was so powerfull that it was lvl 20, I was lvl 16 and my mates about 12 (yeah computers from players side sucks : 1-15 is more than a rape, it's a cheated feeding).
It was the kind of game where you have to get 5 forteresses down. Last forteress : Unclean beast ALONE vs : 4 DG, 4 flows of creeps (WITH giants) with armor/life upgrade 2 or 3, damage upgrade 2 or 3, some towers (maybe 4-5). Unclean beast got 80% of the building then ran away (not even teleported). I was torch bearer in fire. I launched him fireballs as soon as possible. 7 sec cooldown : in 7 seconds, he gained life without potions more than the 1050 dmg I deal to him.
And I was owning on my side (14-3, maybe).
On dota, a heroe alone can't do that.
Now, we can speak about balance.
I really hope things will be balanced later, cause I like Torch bearer a lot, but I think UB is THE DG to play.
having played Demigod for 9 months now and being quite good at I think, I can assure you that UB definitely is not that good currently , heck even underpowered maybe compared to sedna and queens of thorns. However the balance overall is pretty good I think, just a few demigods are easy to play and a few aren't and of course a game can't be really truly balanced at release.
some things to keep in mind for those DoTA players who are just starting the game this week -
- take some time to play the game. Don't play the single player or against AI or a few games and then say the game has no depth or balance. You know how annoying it is when some punk comes in and says DoTA is imba and lame and only 5 heroes are any good? Try not to come in cold and say the equivalent about Demigod until you've beaten someone who knows how to play, thanks.
Constructive criticism is always welcome - talking about a given aspect of UI or balance you'd like changed because you've seen it work really well in another game is fine. But if you get jumped on for it have a little patience - a lot of time was spent in Beta rehashing DoTA vs Demigod and some people have gotten frustrated/burnt out on the convo. Wear them down with clear, logical, and polite detail-oriented discussion.
- many of the *community* problems with DoTA have been fixed or close to it with Demigod. You will have clan support, you have ranks, ladders, and stats. You won't see First Blood Leavers. The game is more accessible/newb-friendly and at the same time has room and status for competitive players. Take advantage of the fresh start to make the community a welcoming place so that you have someone to play against.
- The commercial enterprises who created this game, Stardock and GPG, have a clear history of outstanding support for their games. If you don't like something about the game - even something fundamental - give feedback and explain how you'd like it changed. A year from now the game the game will look very different based in large part on what we as a community have to say.
oh boy, i have a feeling dredging this up was a bad idea....
nice post Ke5trel
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
Sign in or Create Account
