In this thread, people are getting TROLLED by [DT]Siddy
meh, all you need with TEC are mazas, carriers and repair cruisers
I wish this thread was slightly more serious...
I hope I am making the right assumption that the Missile barrage ability is now destroying ships extremely quickly (10 - 15s is quick in this slow paced game) without the need of other supporting ability. (Namely, it outclasses most of the other Lv6 abilities)
The logic observed backing the Marza's unmatched power is that the TEC fleet overall is much weeker. Therefore, a unit with an uber ability that can be used alone without synergy is needed. This does not come along as the best method of balancing.
Take RA as an example, before 1.1 some claimed that Vasari are weak(especially economically) that the unending tide of dark fleet is to balance the game. That kind of justification is similar to the current Marza case. I personally do not think Vasari needed RA to balance them out but RA really tipped the favor far too much into the player once it was researched. Same goes for Missile barrage, the difference of having it and not having it has such an instant and immense difference. The changes in 1.1 regarding RA, distortion field and repulsion are all aimed at reducing this kind of effect.
If the argument that the TEC itself is too weak is valid, it should be balanced by something else instead of an uber Lv6 Marza. The TEC is supposed to outbuild the other races by gathering resources faster ,building stuff more cost effectively and faster. Buff should be made to these economical advantages so that they can compete.
Of course, I am basing my reasoning on the assumption that Missile Barrage is far more powerful than other Lv6 ability used alone and Marza as a ship itself becomes an OP unit once reaching LV6.
The difference is that marza doesn't have a strong defense and can be ripped down with focus fire. It takes you a loooong time to wipe out stuff and there is a significant cooldown to your ability so you can't just use it whenever. Since its channelling, marza also cannot use any other abilities (well, aside from its passive) or attack and the ability will stop instantly when it dies.
So yeah, a Marza can rip down fleets and fleets of stuff quickly (comparatively) but you can destroy it just as fast. Just look at what the other cap ships can do. Vasari can use the egg's nanite disassembler giving the ship -6 armor, focus fire, and then use gravity warhead to stop it from escaping. The non standard marauder can phase it out of the current space. Advent can use malice to give 30% more damage with their usual Progenitor. They can also use the revelation battle cruiser for reverie. Cleansing brilliance does 250 dps compared to the Marza's 150. Vasari's Disintegration (I think its multi-target) does 200 dps. Tec has Akkan which can use ion bolt to shut it out.
And then there are the universal counters. Like nano weapon jammers. Magnetic clouds. Antimatter draining. Support cruiser's special ability.
So Marza has a really good level 6 ability. But the ship isn't made by its 6th level ability.
Since there are so many existing counters to the Marza spam, since getting multiple Marza's to level 6 is not a given, and since the Marza spam would be very vulnerable to strikecraft which make up a healty portion of most fleets, I can not see any reason to nerf thsi ability. It may be more powerful than some of the other level 6 abilities, but this seems to only be the case if you ignore it and fail to counter it. There is no way to make all cap ship abilities equal at every level, and what would be the merit of doing so anyway? Diversity is fun. Think how great Halle Berry looks.
The most unfair thing is to treat unequals equally.
to be honest, making all girls look like her would be pretty .. uhmm whats whe word imlookingfor....
hahaha! Awesome analogy!
That said, the Marza should probably max out at about 20 (or something) ships it can hit with this ability. Even with counters in play, your fleet can get dinged up pretty bad from just the first couple waves of damage before the shield mitigation scales up, tipping the tide against your fleet. And I'm just talking about 1 Marza. If a game goes on so long, and the other guy gets more than 2 at level 6, you are in serious trouble because it is very hard to counter multiples, and even if you kill a couple, you can count on taking a ton of damage in the meantime.
Marzas backed by enough Hoshikos can be hard to kill, and if the enemy has a fleet supporting his Marzas, he doesn't even need to hit you with the full barrage, just enough of it to tip the balance heavily in his favor by damaging all your ships. I would almost prefer 3 level 6 Marzas by themselves than 1 level 6 Marza backed by a fleet.
max ship hit nerfs any ability hard, look at malice and animocity
use-less
The thing is, if enemy is so ignorant that he lets you ff for building 3 marza and getting them to lvl 6 - h deservs all that is coming his way.
its like letting people tech for RA or percevasive eco...
I'm not arguing that point at all, I have never had a problem with this kind of player. The ones that are the problem are the really skilled players with just a one or two Marzas backed by a diverse battlefleet. That is why I said, I prefer a 3 Marza rusher over 1 Marza + battlefleet. The guy with 1 Marza only has to wing you with it to tip the battle against you. The guy with 3 Marzas doesn't live long enough to use them, unless he was sheltered the whole game. Even if you kill or counter the Marza, the first few volleys will strip the shields off of a fleet, even if they are trying to get out of range.
I'm not saying the situation can't be dealt with, but I would agree Missile Barrage is a bit OP for the same reason why Malice used to be OP. You yourself said it is OP. In the meantime, life is good with Marza.
who ever think that that ability is not OP is either ignorant, retarded or biased
That's not true, they could be all three. Why do you not like Halle Berry. Can't you see she is beautiful? The math is quite simple:
Halle Berry (HB) is the personification of beautiful diversification (BD).
The Marza (MZ)is likewise beautifully diversified as it is beautifully different than the other race's level 6 cap ships. And don't go claiming the missle barrage is not a beautiful thing if you are on the recieving end. Beauty does not have to be attainable to be beautiful. Which brings us back to:
HB = BD
MZ = BD
HB = MZ
So you nwould no more want Halle Berry to have some blackend out teeth or a crooked nose as you would nerf the Marza.
Who is for nerfing Halle Berry anyway? What is wrong with you? No further discussion is neccessary as nerfing the Marza has now been proven logically to be a bad idea. I will admit to having been accused of displying all three of the above issues, sometime simulatneously, but even so, I can not support the idea of nerfing Halle Berry or the Marza.
2 Halle Berry's don't run around killing 80 Kodiaks. They just look good and act.
yes, they could be all 3 things, but thats just sad
That's besides the point. People can be ignorant in thousands of creative ways and it doesn't have to involve a Marza.
The point is that Missile Barrage is so grossly overpowered it makes all other TEC caps obsolete.
I dont feel that missile barrage makes the other caps obsolete. It may make the Kol obsolete but thats really a matter of style as the Kol is still a powerful ship, but look at the other caps. The Akkan Battlecruiser was never really an attack ship, with the ion bolt it is nice to lead forces in battle but the Kol and Marza always did more damage. So why build an Akkan? for it's colonize ability. Unless the Marza can colonize i dont see it making the Akkan obsolete. And for somebody using a mostly carrier fleet the carrier cap ship is invaluable as it has buffs for it's fighters and it has more fighters than the Marza which doesnt start with a strike fleet can even dream of getting. Again the obsoletness of the various cap ships are fully dependant on style and play.
Kol isn't obsolete. You can use its Flak ability to counter the bombers trying to kill your Marza.
Agreed, except for the ones that look like Tea Leoni. We should build a case as to why advent carriers should not be nerfed using Tea Leoni.
I would like to remind you of Lynn Minmei who at the age of 15 destroyed almost the entire Zentraedi armada. I have never heard Halle Berry sing but I think she could handle 80 odd Kodiaks forming a parking lot in a gravity well.
And Ender Wiggins was 11 when he destroyed the Buggers. I don't want to see him in a bikini though. Put a Marza in a bikini and it will still barrage your fleet to death. Wait, what are we talking about again?
Ok, semi seriously, is the Kol actually good at taking out fighters, specifically advent's, with its flak burst or is it better to just spend some money on flak frigates?
It doesent make the rest of the TEC caps more obsoleat than they allredy were, i used marza before missile barrage were fixed, because it can deal 6dps sustained + 21dps AoE damage on top of its own damage.
Thats like having nanites on the whole fleet. Takes some lvling but its still by far most useful cap TEC got even without the Barrage. Barrage is just cherry on the top.
What i am saying here is that we need make other caps more useful. The caps, majority of them are allredy underpowered to the point, selecting one over fleet may cause you lose ridiculosly.
In theory yes, in prectice no.
The kol needs to deal the damage instantly from the falk, as a resul it dont damage the skimming fighters more than 20% of its abailitys full potential. UNLIKE TELEKINETUICK BICHSLAP.
The kol's flak burst is deadly, but dont rely on autocast it fires the moment any strike craft come into range. micro this ability to bring out its potential
Chanelling fighterkilling abilities = lol
The Kol Flak ability is a matter of scale, it hits all strikecraft in its radius. If there are tons of strikecraft and if they fly directly over the Kol as you activate it, you can do tremendous damage, giving your other anti-strikecraft ships a big edge. A couple of well timed Kol Flak bursts can almost wipe out the enemy strikecraft.
If there are not many strikecraft or if they are all over the place and you can't hit a big cluster of them, then you'll wish you just had more flak frigates, or more strikecraft of your own. In practice, you don't get the Kol to fight strikecraft, but it is a handy ability to have if you happen to have a Kol in play.
Yeah, but in the end, fighting strikecraft with more than own strikecraft is, at end, futile.
since
strike crafts are
FREE.
only ability that is good is telekinetick, because it can achive 2 things.
PREVENT the damage.
and damage the strike craft.
Anything less and you gona lose if you dont have onw carrier force big enought to get air superiority.
I can say this from firm experience.
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