It's time to bring the best space MMO ever to the best space RTS ever...
First question: is anyone else already working on something like this? If so what have you done so far? Would you like to collaborate?
Now I know that a game as complex as Eve cannot be fully incorporated into Sins... I just want to take the best elements and come up with a good mix.
=============
I first want to go over the various aspects of Eve and hash out what we can and can't do in Sins.
I want to compile lists of:
I'll compile this info here and expand to separate threads only if necessary.
I'd like to get community feedback first.
So? I know there must be at least a few former or current Eve players here.
Just what I was about to say.
I'm not 100% sure about these numbers but I believe it goes a little bit like this:
7000-10000 for capital ships
5000 or so for cruisers
2000-3000 for frigates
Isn't that what Sins is around?
Whoops I meant thats the limit for the Sins engine. I have no idea about EVE
Its acutally about the same for eve thankfully,,,
We can work on the mod without the permission of Eve to start it, we just cant distribute it until we have promission from what i understand.
I dont know who has talked to them, but we need to do it from an advertising standpoint... IE give them free ads on the mod's website and all the credit to them for the models.. but CCP has been known to be ghay a time or two so they may say no... but i dont think that should stop us from working abit....
Gah, ignore what I was saying about poly counts, for some reason I was thinking the numbers for Sins models were much lower, like 400 polys for a frig low...
As for balancing pricing on ships, maybe we could go for a system where we assume the BP is around 50ish ME, and from there we do some magic on the price of the BPO iskwise, and for metal we could do metal = tritanium + pyerite*(price on pyerite)/(price on tritanium) + mexallon*(price on mexallon)/(price on tritanium) + isogen*(price on isogen)/(price on tritanium) and so on for all of the needed minerals, leaving crystal free for however T2 construction requirements are worked out. By using this a Punisher (using prices in Domain, since that's where I was) would cost around 64,000 metal, around a third of which was it's lone trit needs.
A second method (which I like much less) could be to just use the isk prices for nocxium, zydrine, and megacyte and use the earlier method for the other minerals that are easily acquired from highsec mining.
get a working prototype with 2 races frigs and cruisers, then run it by CCP -this way if they say no you're not out much work. if they give the ok, you've gotten the basics down and are ready to mwd in vagabond style with guns blazing.
Minmatar Example:Frigate Factory: Frigate section: 8 slots: Slasher (Scout + MWD)Rifter (AC + MWD)Vigil (target designate)Breacher (long range missile)Thrasher (high damage long range projectiles)Mammoth (colonize)Bellicose (long range missile + cluster)Scythe (extractor takeover)Cruiser Section: 8 slots:Claw (MWD + Long range Artillery)Jaguar (MWD + AC, good shields)Vagabond (MWD, high shields, tackling/immobilization)Scimitar (Shield restore -Dunov Style)Cyclone (long range artillery, good shields)Hurricane (MWD + AC -poor shields, moderate armor)Claymore (AC's + fleet speed increase, target disruption (sig reduction), high shields)Huginn (Immobilization + missiles, artillery)Capital Factory:Typhoon (Ac's + Neuts, fighers/bombers damage bonus, MWD -moderate armor/shields + tackle)Tempest (MWD, AC, a smartbomb effect, moderate shields/armor, power surge)Maelstrom (tons of long range damage, high shields)Naglifar (Planet Siege, extreme damage -slow as hell -no nanofag dreads)Nidhoggur (Ability to Spawn 20 Drones [7DS warhammer style], spawn 4 rifters, spawn 2 stabbers, massive shield restoring)Rapier: (Very Very Expensive to build "1 capital cost; 300 fleet cost", but ability is to "Spawn" the Ragnarok titan)**Rapier -the Ragnarok Titan Spawn ability cooldown is 9 hours to prevent spamming**Ragnarok Titan -slow, doomsday weapon, high shield, low armor, ability to spawn 2 cyclones, spawn 1 hurricane
Hows it sound? sure, the abilities and such are just my musings, but the overall idea might work.
Looks goodish, but the Bellicose is more of a stabber-type ship, with ACs and stuff seeing as it gets the projectile bonus. It also gets that Target Painter bonus, which could/should be worked in somehow.
Should prolly have the Stiletto in over the claw, since they are both interceptors and the Stiletto gets that fun tackle bonus.
Thrasher should be something of a fighter/drone killer, it gets the tracking bonus and in eve it's role is to kill smaller ships anyway.
Might want to switch out the Huginn for the Sleipnir (Never seen a Huginn used other than as a) bait or b ) lone frig killer in lowsec)
Scimitar gets more of a tracking link bonus than shield transfer, which can be implemented by changing the chances to hit that the constraints file lists, if its possible.
Rapier should be in the cruiser section, possibly replacing the Jaguar. Might want to change out the Vigil for the Sabre, everyone loves dictor bubbles.
This still leaves the Broadsword out, which is sorta annoying....
Tempest could go either way: long-range sniping platform, or close-up AC platform with neuts...
Maelstrom should prolly be an AC boat with the godly shield tank it deserves.
Rapier shouldn't spawn a titan, and the capital ships should be unable to go on inster-stellar trips on their own, unless implementing cynos is impossible, but that removes the ability to hotdrop, which everyone loves.
Naglfar should prolly not have long range; as far as I know, they are very rarely fit with arty.
I don't think the carriers should be able to spawn other ships, they already would have awesome remote reps. Nidhoggur itself should have awesome shield and armor repair abilities, it gets bonuses to both. We should probably include the Hel, both to make the line of capital ships complete, and because it's purdy. >.>
On quick note a siege mode for dreads will be a fun addon to sins. Same general bonsus but your ship is stuck for lets say 5 minutes instead of 10... So who is uhh going to convert these babies to sins... i can get them out of EvE and looking purdy..but im at my wits end with getting them to work in Sins.
Also the tempest for instance we could have it stock short range Autocannon boat but an ability to "switch ammo" and boost range with slightly less dps by setting the weapon cooldown a little longer. However in the sins battles tracking / speed really isnt really put into play like it is in EvE.... sins battles they converge on each other seems like everytime. and if you cant warp like in EvE then poses the problems of modifing ship speeds...if you make them any slower games just wouldnt be much enjoyment...(imho)
To do this mod Right I would like to start off with just the minmatar and the ammar and theme this as the Ammar / Minmatar war era or something of that nature would be really cool theme and would really let us focus on getting the gameplay and balancing issues down to an easy science you play all 4 races and your asking for a lot more work ... alot more when it comes to balancing costs/firepower/speed/blah/blah/blah.....
Being an EVE player for around 4 years now id like to make some personal alterations to your tech tree suggestions
New Tech trees
Well thats what i could think up for now i thank you anyone who botherd to read all that
ideas are sounding good now take a race file and start changing them how you see fit and then send them over
x me up, I'll start having a look at caldari ships as they are mostly missile based anyway... exceptions are rokh (sniper railguns) and the smaller t2 hybrid frigates.
-edit
"Sins of new eden" anyone?
The ferrox, The Cormorant, The Moa are also railgun boats and not missile boats. Caldary have 1 gun boat is each class of ship that is subcapital.
true true.... I hate to admit it as i'm a chimera pilot at heart but in eve I took the time to train up the minmatar skills for the recon/hac's as they are really superior to the caldari for pvp in small engagements... the drake ftw over the ferox tbh, but yeah. -Comorant? ohh, you mean the salvage boat
I'm just going through the strings file atm to see if I cant get some eve feeling from it... already got the credits to isk and antimatter to capacitor, but I'm going to have to try and figure out how to decode the ship files now
-edit Sorted the race names for tec now, using tec as basic model as they are most human imo, going to see about getting the kestrel, merlin, caracal and rokh in game before doing any more, as stated these ship files dont make much sense
Lol the destroyers are are all gun snipers made to kill friagtes and interceptors. But yeah their used for salvage.
Actuly factories should only produce T1 ships. T2 should be upgraded from T1 in space by paying more resources after having done the reasearch.
Can't be done that way. Structures can't be upgraded, except in Entrenchment. And I don't think Entrenchment allows you to upgrade your frigate factories so they can produce cruisers.
T2 sips can be unlocked with high tier research in military. If the "Empire" research -colonization, travel, mining enhancement is only 1 block, then a massive block can be "Research" that might have some basic T1 fundamental research that leads to tier 3-5 level T2 stuff that allows BPO research that will unlock the T2 ship in the military tree somewhere in the tier 3-6 area.
In 7 Deadly Sins, the Rogues start with the basic pirate ships but unlock the AFG series heavy cruisers with impressive abilities with tier 5 military research of the prototype. With an EVE mod, unlocking the Vagabond wouldn't involve just having 5 military labs, but might involve having to research 2-3 items in the research block that are tier 3-4.This way the ships themselves aren't very expensive, but the research is the kicker. Most players will be using a lot of Tech 1 stuff and very little Tech 2 due to high research costs until late game. Players wouldn't roll out a Titan spawning T2 ship without some extensive and pricey research to get that recon ship. Seems like a lot, but keeps the TITAN from being a capitalship that can be created quick and cheaty via "First capitalship is free" feature. Much of this prevents overpowering ships (most T2) from hitting the field too soon.
This nice side of all this lies in map creation via the GalaxyScenarioDef file where templates what NPC's spawn at various places and what sorts of "home planet" start fleets players have. Not very difficult to create templates so players can start with just about anything. Also with GalaxyForge 1.1, automatic scenario template creation/integration, starting fleets can be set damn easy.
that's all very well, but you'd probably have to put up a secondary research prerequisite to make it rare enough..... if you applied a security status to the maps and made them in galforge, you could have 0.0 systems with a capturable building that's the prerequisite for t2, but instead of granting resources like an asteroid colony, it subtracts a good portion of resources like a pos:- these systems should also be heavily defended by pirates. That way you're making it a hard choice as wether to go for the t2 or stick with the t1.
Gabriel, not sure if sec status could be applied to world made in GForge, but templates can define what is present -which is totally possible and very easy to do. 1.0 to 0.8 spawns can be very light frigates, 0.7 to 0.5 a few more frigs, maybe a cruiser or two, 0.4 to 0.2 more frigs, cruisers, a few BC's, 0.1 stack the prior spawn with the chance of a BS spawning too. For 0.0 the template can be set to regularly spawn 2-4 BS's (.8 chance with 2-4 groups having a BS, BC, cruiser, 2 frigs), then carry the pattern downward in chance of T2 ships spawning.It's doable via templates.
As far as capturables that are pre-req's for T2, that's not possible as far as I know and not very feasible.
POS draining resources... not sure that'll work either, but a combat POS -deathstar - would be a large tactical unit a'la starbases. Stations can be repair and antimatter regen -perhaps a combination of Trade Port, Refinery, and Repair/AntimatterRegen.
Get the "Empire" ships in for each race and I can get the GSDef file worked up properly. Get Pirate Faction ships set up as NPC races and I can lay them out as well as planet owners or just "rats" at a planet.
Shewha? How's this on the second page? Not cool, guys...
Update as to what I've been poking; I got the closest thing I can come up with for cynoing capitals, and a siege mode of sorts, but I am unsure on how (if it is possible) to prevent cynoing while siege'd. Cynoing also makes drones die off, which is bad...
If you really want to replicate "Cyno"/Hot-dropping a dread fleet... Take that rapier's ability to spawn a titan and instead modify it to spawn 10 dreadnaught that are basically like the ability that spawns a missile platform. The immobility replicates SIEGE MODE perfectly -now just make them immune to everything except weapon damage. This prevents the dreads from moving to another planet, they're sole purpose is to take down starbases and super-structures. Set the Dreads (which have massive range and able to hit anything in the grav well no matter where deployed) to last for 5 minutes, then vanish -I think currently they explode/die but that can be looked into.
or give the rapier the titan spawn ability with antimatter cost of 5000 and Cyno Dreads a cost of 4000 to prevent spamming dread fleets. I'm just suggesting ways to free up as many build slots as possible by spawning capital class vessels.
The thing is, just giving the rapier the ability to spawn 10 capitals really wont work. You would have to balance that out with making the rapier as expensive as 10 capitals would be, and your capitals shouldn't be suicide ships/dissapear after 5 minutes. Dreads and carriers (and titans/motherships) are still mobile ships (dreads are out of siege once in a while, and I've even known one fleet to warp from a pos to another pos in system )
Right now, a Cyno beacon would be an immobile trade ship (or other shiptype that can be listed as a constraint) that is spawned by the Cynosural Field Generator ability. The Cynosural Jump ability from a capital ship is constrained to targeting only the immobile trade ship class and subsequently destroys the original capital ship and spawns a new one at the Cynosural beacon.
Build slots can be bumped up anyway, so making capitals themselves is not that much of a problem.
I'm just throwing out ideas. If you deploy a beacon, it might not work properly and allow your dreads, carriers, titans, and mom to jump to it. Besides, you want the ships arriving/spawning on top of the cyno ship, not entering at the edge of the gravity well. Spawning prevents them from having to be mass produced in cruiser slots, cause if capitals you can only build so much. Also, I see nothing wrong with that "Rapier/Cyno" ship being tier 6, 7, or 8 military research with some back-research to unlock it -AND- being as expensive as a capital, it's not gonna spawn more afterwards, so if not pwnd you can scuttle it or get antimatter feeds on top of it (logistics ships?).
just my cents
I would wish if you could put this mod on moddb btw does it have a name like EVE wars lol
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
Sign in or Create Account
