Agreed.  Mostly i was hoping that a dev would see the post and think "wow, that is a cool idea..." then down the line sometime in a new expantion or update, we would see somthing like it, (like a advanced "quick start")

Fear of experienced players? Nope. I've had the game since beta, played it since beta. The elitism and spam strategies is what keeps me away.

Looking at at least one of the threads in the strategy forum, what I do see is "ONLY PEOPLE WHO PLAY MULTIPLAYER POST IN HERE. NO SINGLE PLAYER PEOPLE!" (https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/341116) which makes me very angry in general. F that noise. If that's what I can expect from multiplayer, then I'll happily stay the hell out.

Reading threads in the strategy section also makes me nuts because of the “This ship is 2.45% better so you should spam them until mid game, when you switch to this, slightly better one, followed by...” leaving no room for creativity. Personally, I find more fun playing the AI which can be very unpredictable, and having to mix my fleets up to counter it, using ships that are deemed 'inefficient' to the multiplayer crowd.

In closing: Is the AI as intelligent as a Human? Nope. Is it more fun to play the AI? Yep. Less trash talk, less elitist bs. Has it changed? Possibly. It stopped being my cup of tea, and I really don't see myself coming back to it.

More fun to play AI? Hell no.  Check out my replay thread.  We have lots of fun playing other people.  The things that happen in our games are hillarious, nothing liek this will happen with an AI player. 

Also no ship is deemed inefficient. What are you talkign about? Only cap ships can be rated better or worse.  All other frigates are simply used for specific roles, so they can't be rated as "better."  They are used for their job, nothing more.

There is some context around this. Such as someone who purely plays SP going - "I want XYZ to be changed" or "ABC tactic works" without having ever played MP to validate this claim. The MP players do not want to hear this as they are a level above playing AIs generally, where they cannot count on a dumb AI move such as running into seige rush a planet surrounded by turrets. In response to the actual thread you linked to - it was about the usefulness of cap ship abilities. SP might see lots of caps - MP doesn't. Hence the call for better bang for your buck by the OP (regardless of if you agree with it or not)

Without reading any of the thread, and to answer the topic: Yes. I guess.

I want an opponent when I want it, is the first thing. If there was such a thing as, knowing you'd get somebody right about your level of expertise, who isn't some kind of trickster, et cetera, I'd play online. But you can't, don't, and won't.

I'm 50 and not so good with the click-fests. But I'd like to think I'm good with the thinking and strategizing. So I play solo, with a LOT of pauses to review what I'm doing. FWIW I wrote a lot of the wiki stuff about resources and income.  (But now that I'm revisiting the game a year later, I see that some of it is very out of date.)

So I play strategy games solo. I play FPS multiplayer sometimes, but not strat games. They take too much time to set up. You can say I "fear" better players. It's more precise to say I fear wasting an hour of my time when I'm simply outclassed by someone who can think or click faster.

Answer your q? - RK

I don't think he's afraid of being against a superior player, much less the possibility of being crushed. Take what he says for face value. He doesn't want to make a living of building an online reputation. He would rather have fun playing the game, and the AI allows more flexibilty of playing style than a human he doesn't know. It's all because a human player wants to win so badly that, with the exception of friends playing LAN, he or she will use the fastest, most popular tactic to steamroll another. Real war doesn't work that way and thus the game loses its appeal online.

One of the problems I see with this thread is that everyone is trying to infere what others say rather than just read their opinions (and after all, that's all they are: opinions). Another is that it occassionally does breaks down to name calling or some form of bashing. In most of the cases, those who hate MP hate it for that very reason. Won't it simply make them hate posting too?

The clans have no monopoly on obnoxious players....every online game has em.  Most of [_] are very decent guys, and as players they are skilled enough to have earned some respect.  I can only think of one who is a huge smacktalker, but you just have to ignore it....it is part of the game for some people.

As for the rest, you will never be happy if you let the squirrels on the interwebs nibble you to death.  It is no fun dealing with jerks, whether or not they can slaughter you in an online game.  The whole point of competitive online gaming is to have an arena where you can compete independent of social status or age.  Don't confuse the issue with just not wanting to play against veteran players.

It's not so much an experience issue with me, I'm just not really a competitive gamer with crazy reflexes and all the 'right' sequences of moves memorized so I tend to avoid most MP offerings that aren't geared toward casual gamers.  I play games to fool around and do random stuff and MP generally equates to play to win, which just isn't my style.  Ironically, or perhaps not, one of the ones I do enjoy is TF2 since it tends to favor good setup and execution rather than classic FPS twitch.

Your opinion, not mine. I have fun with friends. And reread the strategy section again. Flak ships worth building? Siege frig's? Carriers are worth it  for sure. Light Frig's, and LRM frigs gogogogo. Cleio? Cap ships are ships, and do count for the argument. How about....any Cap ship other than the Egg for Vasari? Starting with something other than the Mothership for the Advent? Subverters if you don't want to micro?  Hmm.....the ships aren't rated as better or worse, efficient or inefficient right?

Before you start with the name calling, yes, I've read all of the threads in the section. Yes, I actually understand the arguments. Yes, I understand efficiency in a build. No, I don't care one bit because it's not a strategy game at that point, it's a "Who has the better build order?" game, like Starcraft. I believe you do wacky things when you're playing your friends..but what if you're not playing your friends. Then what?

These are the kind of attitudes that keep me away from Multiplayer. Do the multiplayer people forget about the singleplayer community? Any changes made to the multiplayer aspect effect the whole game, not just multiplayer. Does that mean that I'm a worse player because I only play with friends, or against the AI, or with friends against the AI? Does that mean I have no opinion worth listening to in such threads? Based on what you've said, my opinion is worthless because I'm not competitive with Sins, and I don't play multiplayer with the "real players".

Also, as a side note, why is that thread even in the strategy section? It doesn't involve strategy, it involves balancing. It's in the completely wrong spot.

Hit the nail on the head. I'm not afraid to lose, I just don't find enjoyment with the strategies of "Perfect build order, steamroll, laugh at MP n00b". Hell, I played Starcraft competitively for several years, so I'm fairly used to losing to superior opponents (ever played the Koreans on their home turf...holy monkey**** it's nuts). I never once called new players out in SC, in fact, I tried to help them. Made for a better group of people, more challenge, the works. Sins...I believe that there are probably good people online. Never seen them myself.

This. It's the reason I don't post usually. I have a different viewpoint that is generally not accepted in the strategy section as I play SP or with friends, so why bother? Look at the replies to the people who post against MP if you don't believe what's being said here.

well, for the most part I don't fear experienced players too much, it can be fun to play against some. It starts sucking when you hit some of the elitists I've read about somewhere on this forum. Did a 2v2v2 today, teams was unlocked because a guy was worried someone might start in a system with an enemy (4 system map), and said to ally the person that started in your system.

among my enemies were some "pro's" and a smurf, but my team actually managed to steamroll them. That is, until what was supposed to be a 2v2v2 suddenly turned into a 4v2 the pro claner and smurf allied up in what was not an ffa match. that was a lot of fun

On the subject, I don't have any fear of more experienced players. On the contrary, going against superior players really does help overall- both competing in multiplayer and fighting more difficult AI in singleplayer.

I've never seen anyone in-game actually be rude or anything based on my experiences.

If you don't play multiplayer, your opinion about multiplayer is worthless simply because you don't have any experience or background in the subject. This has nothing to do with being "better" or "worse", and has no impact on the value of your opinion about singleplayer - if you play singleplayer only, then that is your area of expertise.

In a balance discussion, you should stick to what you know and state how any proposed changes would affect the singleplayer experience, or comp stomps, or whatever mode you play. It's certainly a better way towards agreement than just blindly claiming that X is under/overpowered in MP if you don't actually know anything about the mode of play.

Please tell me the AI was on unfair???