I've come across this sentiment in a couple threads so I thought it might be time for a separate discussion. Does a fear of experienced players and/or pro players keep you from coming online?
My advice is to accept that you have to take your lumps and pay your dues in order to become experienced and also to look over the player records before a game is about to start and politely request that the teams be balanced and mention that you're new to the online game. In my experience if you say that you're new to the online game players will try to balance out the teams.
Also, you guys can play the game online as humans v. computer until you feel a little more comfortable playing online. You might even try to set up some human v. human games with other people who are willing to play human v. computer. You could also title games, "New Players Only".
Another thing to remember in a team game is that you personally don't need to be winning in order for your team to be winning and you don't have to be elite to help your team. Even if you lose, try to enjoy being as annoying and as big of a pain in the arse as you can--delaying the fall of your empire and distracting your team's opponents helps your team. So, even if you get beaten when you're first starting out--try to enjoy the challenge of being a pain in the butt--enjoy the game as a team game and enjoy doing what you can to help your team.
I abhor playing online...ONLY because of a sucky internet connection. (The people who have played me know otherwise, however)
I suck playing online, and hence i don't do it anymore, especially when it comes to sins.
A group of friends got me this game and we are just going to play LAN parties with it. Really not interested in going online. My friends are all busy with school so we don't have time to train up to be competitive.
As for fear of pros, we don't truly fear pros. We just dislike trashtalking idiots that come with the package in every MP experience. We've played other games online with the outside world before, and I for one was rather disgusted. Last time we played online for extended period of time was with WOW, and we started out at the bottom but learned really fast, and became somewhat "pros" ourselves, and found the fruit rather empty, so I'm not gonna do that here.
I played quite a few RTS and some RPGs too over the years. I found that online play against strangers is all about either to win with speed and efficiency, or learning how to win like that. Such style IMO actually cuts away many ways you can play and enjoy the game. Through comparing different games that have a variety of sides/races/classes to choose from, I found that the way to WIN calls for but a select few of those classes/sides, and sticking with precise formulas. It's all about rolling the right class, and/or using the exact formula. The last time I beat people in online RTS, I felt bad, because that was exactly what goes on. Despite your attempts to confort your beaten opponents, they just feel like crap and you see it. I'm just too lazy to either shoulder or deal out such misery on a regular basis. =/ I don't hate losing to pros. I hate losing to jerks. Also I sometimes hate winning as a pro, because it makes me feel like a jerk. Whatever.
That's why I don't play online RTS, except with select friends (and even then I get my ass handed to me, but they're friends so it is okay). It is all about winning with the most efficient combination. I play games to have fun. And boiling down a game to its basic mechanics and deriving a formula to win is not fun for me. I'd rather get immersed in the universe and stumble my way through it.
i play LAn games with my friends, and we always go on one team, and then it's us against as many computers as possible allied against us. the winner out of us is the one with the highest score at the end.
i don't go online and play because i dislike the whole sticking to "What wins" idea, rather than playing the game to it's full extent
This Is a game..Its suppose to be fun... Loosing is not Fun...EVER:) I like long, Drawnout games. These are not online friendly. As one guy put it, most multiplayer games end up only useing 2/3 of the tech tree. Anotherwords most games are Rush Rush RUSH. No intriuge<Spelling> no diplomacy, just smash till there is nothing left to smash.
I also wanted to mention Our new addon(Entrenchment). One of the things I never liked about sins and ALL other RTS is U are forced to expand. Why Cant I Build the HELL out of My home planet(Starbases+bounuses) and capture a few other planets to build up like crazy, in a few select systems. For example, instead of giving us a free capital ship at the start, we get a Free starbase with Logistics and tactical bounuses. One of the greates Advantages of Space is its vastness and the ability for an advanced Civ to see the need for stealth untill they are ready to meet the neighbors.
Loveing the New Addon!!! Keep up the great work..Only one CTD so far in a very long game.
Chris
I have never played online, I only play LAN games with my friends.
Samurye.
I agree...my experience in multiple RTS online games is that it is about who can defeat the most players in an evening. It's like wanting to be a king of the hill. I play sins about 80% MP with my friends and we are on the same team against the same number of AI players. Difficulty is set based on the mix of people and their preference. After a multi-hour game we usually have had the chance to talk quite a bit, coordinate and function as team and have generally had a good time.
We do that is full MP games vs each other. The only difference is we cannot set the AI difficulty. But we try to get around that by having a PUG match. Two team captains pick their teams and off we go. It is not about killing everyone, it is about being challenged!!!
The one thing I don't like, is how up their own asses most of the "Elite" are. Really, they need to take a moment to remember that they were beginners too and crawl out of their sense of undeserved self satisfaction. Games are supposed to be fun, and it's perfectly fun to lose, you learn as much from a (Good) loss as a win, if not more. What's not fun is having some uppity cock gloat like he just did something in life that actually matters. One thing a lot of people need to realize, myself included, is that sarcasm DOES NOT translate well to text. So it's better to be a little humble with your victories unless the people you are playing know you well. As some have already said, offer better strategy advice, explain that no matter how many times you play against the AI, humans are entirely different opponents, treating any Human like you treat the AI is not going to help. Single player is meant more to familiarize yourself with the units and very general strategies.
As someone said, a lot of people don't like competitive gaming, myself included. I'm a VERY good gamer, I can learn naunces quickly, master strategy and dominate if I choose to, however, the few times I've pushed myself to try (Halo 3, Gears of War 2) I found myself Loathing the game, and henceforth stopped going for competitive gaming. If you find yourself mastering every hotkey, knowing every possible build order, and choosing 1 faction because they have some type of inbalance associated with them, you are probably a competitive oriented gamer. If you find yourself using only the mouse, Zooming in with cinematic mode on to look at your ships Autocannons firing, and choose a team because you like their backstory and/or architecture, you're probably not a competitive gamer and probably wouldn't like Online play very much.
Well, Im not exactly afraid of MP.
It just that too many people who play it either smurf, smash me in a determined attack, or rush me to have a fleet.
There has to be more than one way to play sins than the fleet. I mean, I FAVOR being the exconomist, i love playing wars of attrition on the black market. I mean, If your TEC and you got the favored client discount, you can control the black market, you can buy low and set your sell price on the black market high enough to gain a profit, Lather and repeat.
When you have enough money on the black market, You can begin to controll it. When you sell stuff on the black market, you can post your price higher to stabilize the market, or you can sell low to make the market more wild in prices.
The only thing i dont know about the market is, How do the stuff you sell get distrobuted? is it mixed in with the crystal/metal that players buy? or can the player specifically request that it can only be bought from a single player?
The economist part is only SO MUCH MORE effective against a player crowd, becuase some are more reliant than others, and the heavily reliant people are the RUSHERS, which seem to be the people who populate this game.
But I cant have this action... Why? Because. People are just too militaristic.
I'll just add that for all you guys who are too scared to play online, you shouldn't be. Compared to most other games I've played online, Sins has a much lower general level of average skill --probably because it's still a new game and there aren't many players out there yet.
Obviously if you are new you are gonna get clobbered, but I'm saying that you will be on par with average players faster than you think. I'd say 10 games or so online and you will have learned more than 50 games offline.
Start playing onine! We need more people!
Oh, and my general policy when I realize I'm outmatching someone is to swith my strategy to cap ships only. That way, I get to have fun using an idiotic strategy, and they get a fighting chance.
I really do enjoy the 5v5 PUG matches. They are awesome and make for some of the most interesting, intense, and meaningful games.
For those who don't know what we're talking about, a PUG match--(P)ick(U)p (G)ame is when two team captains draft the other players. For 5v5 the draft order would be A-BB-AA-BB-A with the first captain having the first and last picks. Because we don't have a program like an IRC pugbot to keep track of the player draft, our convention is that everyone starts out on Team 10 and then changes to their captain's team when they are picked.
I introduced the idea to the Sins community and it seems to have taken off. As far as I know, PUGs originated in the FPS community where clanners wanted to be able to play spontaneously-organized matches that felt like clan matches but with teams of mixed players and without schedules or obligations. (In FPS, a 5v5 with voice comm and assigned positions is very very different in feel from a 5v5 on a public server; the difference is much greater than between a Sins 5v5 PUG match and 5v5 non-PUG match.)
Hack I appreciate your comment and I'm aware of the fact that there are teams vs teams out there. I and my friends tried enough times in MP environments and never found it enjoyable or satisfying. The group I play with is very content to keep it as a “our group” versus the computer for at least now…maybe it’ll change some day, although I doubt it.
Time for a <bump> of this subject.
For me, games just take too long to be viable for online play.
I don't have the time to invest in a game which may well go south (loss of connection, players leaving etc).
I don't mind getting beaten, but I can't afford to sink the few hours I have free into something which seems to go belly up 75% of the time.
I wouldn't say I fear online playing, but I have become disinterested in it. It comes down to three major factors.
1. I don't have time to play a lot of hours online and become pro.
2. I prefer friends who are available for long campaigns (that includes heavy politicing) that can be picked up at a pre-arranged time.
3. I've played online with Starcraft and Quake Wars, where a player would flood the screen with curse words or accomplish all the goals to win before I respawn. Either way, leaves no room for any feeling of improvement.
i dont play strategy games online because it is such a waste of time when you loose miserably
with first person shooters, and, well, every other game i can think of, when you loose its only a little while till you can get right back into the fight and try again...
strategy games are just crap for mp
I've only played Sins over LAN with my old housemate against the CPU. That seemed to work well as we could both agree on a time to stop. I do want to get into online play (I think I'd like to forge some alliances on here first so I've got some people on my side haha) but I'm not sure how it'd work if like...I'm in a game with a bunch of people and I have to leave.
Getting my ass kicked, well that I'm not so worried about. It'll most definitely happen. I love RTS but I'm not brilliant at them (yet). I just enjoy them. Even when I lose haha.
I like to play strategy games offline.
They just take too much time online.
I only play shooters or MMORPGs online. And lately, I got bored of the MMORPG genre, it lacks innovation and is dominated by a game whose design is as old as EverCrack.
The main reason is time.
Yeah, I've never been really able to "Rush" in RTS' and my games go for several hours against the computer, player and hour here or there. I rarely have the time to spend a couple hours to play a game online.
"Does a "fear" of experienced (or pro) players keep you from playing Sins online?"
depends the so called pro players spam so what are they actaully pro's at playing like noobs building one type of ship over and over again not actaully exploring other ways to win due to they small minded ways
i play with friends that like massive mixed fleets not shrimpy LRM/Carrier spams
Totally agree. I can see this guys point of view. Using an Analogy...
If I had to play Tennis and I had a choice of playing Federer or my friend , id choose my friend. Why play Federer when hes just gonna do spam aces against me and spam top spin winners. Hes all fast-twitch reactions and speed , but under all that I bet he has no strategy like I do. I use lots of strategy , forexample in a single rally rather then top spin everything i mix it up with moon balls , crosscourt netshots and mid court backspins , i even mixup my serve with a few underhand serves and slow balls. Slow balls are awesome , because sometimes it catches out my friend who stands too far back . See how this is really strategic? I couldnt do this with Federer , It would not work , so eliminates various strategic ways to win the rally.
Ive watched Nadal vs Federer.. Its just a spam contest of who can hit it harder. bleh !
:sarc:
Most of what I've learned in this game has been from:
A.) Reading the forums
B.) Observing more experienced players in games.
I jump at the opportunity to play with someone better than me. It makes me a better player in the long run.
That is crap and you know it.
The pros will "spam" a ship type if they know they can get you quickly with it (e.g. LRM). But you might not have noticed that they are also often one step ahead of you. While they are spamming LRM at you, they are also starting to bring some fighters in to counter you. By the time you bring your carriers in, they have air sumpremacy and have flak/FL as well. Or maybe some support cruisers. Or even HCs. or a second/third cap ship.
Yeah - I can see how that is spam....
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