I've come across this sentiment in a couple threads so I thought it might be time for a separate discussion. Does a fear of experienced players and/or pro players keep you from coming online?
My advice is to accept that you have to take your lumps and pay your dues in order to become experienced and also to look over the player records before a game is about to start and politely request that the teams be balanced and mention that you're new to the online game. In my experience if you say that you're new to the online game players will try to balance out the teams.
Also, you guys can play the game online as humans v. computer until you feel a little more comfortable playing online. You might even try to set up some human v. human games with other people who are willing to play human v. computer. You could also title games, "New Players Only".
Another thing to remember in a team game is that you personally don't need to be winning in order for your team to be winning and you don't have to be elite to help your team. Even if you lose, try to enjoy being as annoying and as big of a pain in the arse as you can--delaying the fall of your empire and distracting your team's opponents helps your team. So, even if you get beaten when you're first starting out--try to enjoy the challenge of being a pain in the butt--enjoy the game as a team game and enjoy doing what you can to help your team.
so is the problem playing experienced players.. or that players are just mean sometimes... i think people let things get to them a bit to easily.. ive been palying the game since it pretty much came out.. ya.. there are people that are not nice.. but come on.. thats life
i agree, but on the interwebs, its much worse, due to the false bravado and courage created by the anonimity and safety of being behind a computer screen
for instance, in sports (like the ones you play with a ball in the sun) there is also smack talk. difference is, its not as sophisticated (its more, heat of the moment, right off the top of your head simple arguements, as opposed to multiple stage, backed up, 30 minute planned responses) often less scathing, and the best bit, you can smack them back if they talk smack to you. i play contact sports, trust me i know.
and i know from that perspective, that it can get quite infuriating when you lost fair and square, logically, inevitably, and fairly, and some prick comes on and screams at you for 15-20 minutes about how much of a noob you are and how you got pwned and how your mother didnt seem to mind the night before...
with people like that, who attack for the sake of attacking, not for some cause, its impossible to retort, and yes, it gets to some people more than others.
i can understand someone working all week, being tired and needing to wind down, wanted to go on the computer and play a relaxing game of Sins, only to be wound up again by some little prick... or some big prick, you can never tell...
the fact remains, unless you are in a good mood and can put up with smack talkers, or know who you are playing with (i.e. you play with friends) and can relax with the knowledge that no one is going to be overly abrasive, then sure, MP is great.
however, there is always the group of shitheads who will be trolls and ruin it for everyone, the trick is finding out who they are and avoiding them...
Slightly more on topic, getting beaten by a "pro" player isnt an issue, if they are conscientious, can laugh good-naturedly, and proceed to explain why he won, not start screaming and jeering about the fact he 'pwned a noob'. That, i think, is the main issue.
Note: when i talk about people talking smack and being insulting etc. im not talking about people who destroy your fleet and go, oh man, your fleet just got wasted, haha, that sucks. thats normal competitive interaction. like cheering for your favorite team. i mean the people who insult you personally, who scream and yell when they destroy a starbase or destroy a fleet with another 3 times the size of the one they destroyed. or even those who start being incredibly insulting when they lose (although, seeing as you won, those are easier to ignore).
ha..for the frist part i agree. but it works two ways also. ur behind a screen also..
for the 2nd part.. i think this may be a select few players.. i think the more exp players know who i am talking about.. but for the most part.. if u have questions the pros will answer anything an explain it in great detail... i think there are a select few that wont..
im not quite a pro but an experienced player who plays alot of the time with the "pros".. alot of the sentiment comes from the pros asking something to be done in a way that they know will better the team.. and then a new player doing the exact opposite. just the other day, we had a pug match where this guy spent the first 5 mins on his hw building cap ships and not moving.. during this 5 mins myself and another exp player tried to coax him off and walk him through while setting ourselves up.. he wouldnt listen and kept saying that he knows how to play..
so in summation.. if a pro asks u to do something.. there must be a reason for it.. as far as the jeering and the pwning of noobs.. no to be too blunt.. but get better.. it is a game and u can always turn it off.. but ur right on the fact there are trolls.. it happens.. but like i said before.. you find that in life.. just avoid them
my only advice.. is for noobies to maybe listen to the exp player first before thinking that you know what ur doing.. especially if u have less than 50 games.
Yeah... I agree with Rezo on this one. MP is a great function, but I am the only person in my group of real-life (non-internet) friends who actually spends their life coding, modding, and sketching. I'm a nerd/geek/whatever else you want to call me. I'm fine with it, but the point remains that for people who do not have friends who they can play with, MP is more or less useless.
People have a tendency to not play online when they feel like they are more than likely going to get burned in the process. This is amplified on ICO as people can smurf quite easily. Let's say a Sins expert is in a really bad mood. There is a very good chance that they would go smurf someone to relieve their anger. This is only occasional as most of the best people at Sins tend to act benevolent to noobs, but once it happens to someone, you can bet that they won't be online any time soon.
The other problem that arises is people who are just pains in the rear. They just sit there and mock you. These people tend to be in the middle class of online gamers. They are often fairly good, but someone, say Amish could smack some sense into them pretty quickly in a game.
The fact is, most people you will encounter are fairly nice people, but in a 10 person FFA, you probably will get someone who you want to kill first just because of the way they are acting.
Online in general, I have noticed a bit of a pattern as far as actions go. This may not be completely accurate for Sins as I don't play online (though I'll have to start sooner or later to test my mod, but oh well), but it does seem to fit well with what I have seen in the past.
Noobs: People in this category are generally very submissive and very anxious to do what someone who is more experienced tells them. Newbies are generally calm people who generally don't know what they are doing.
Lower-Middle: These people are generally those who play against the AI and win, but don't play much online. For this reason, they know how to play the game, but they don't exploit all the little things that online players do. I fit in here.
Middle: These players know how to play online and do pretty well at it. Most are humble about it and very agreeable. There are however those in this category who are arrogant as they can PWN NOOBS!!! although the rest of the community just wants them to shut up.
Upper-Middle: These people are very good at MP and tend to keep to themselves. They don't really talk about their skill, they just know they are good and they do it for fun. That's all there is to it.
Experts: These people are generally quite kind and do enjoy helping Noobs out. While they have immense skill, they don't brag about it. They just accept it and use it to help people when they need it.
Post-Expert: These people are crazy good and could probably beat me on Aerolian Sector in less than an hour. They are awesome at MP. These are the people who debate the balance of the game on things the rest of the community couldn't care less about. The thing is about most people in this class is that they tend to seem almost benevolent. They spend their time mentoring and helping out those below them on the totem pole. While they do mention that they are good, they will talk about why they are good. They write guides and give suggestions to other members of the community on how to play properly. Their opinion is that everyone should deserve a chance to be good at this game so long as they are respectful of the community.
Sorry if that was off, but from my experience, the chart is generally divided into those categories.
yeah, like i said, most 'pros' are conscientious, useful, valued members of the community, and will give you tips help (even if you dont ask for it) and not scream at you when they score even minor wins. still, a person who has played even 10 games of MP is more 'pro' than a brand spanking new noob with a fresh copy of the game trying out MP. once the new guy gets beaten by his relatively superior foe, and then gets smack talked into the ground by some little punk... do you think he's going to have a good opinion of the MP community? or that he'll come back again?
as for the first part... yeah, it works both ways... but what advantage do you get from being behind a screen? it only gives "defensive" options, as it were, such as turning the game off (which, really, means you lose out on playing your game and he wins because you retreated/surrendered), not 'offensive' options (such as re-arranging the other guys face).
basically, unless you can dish it out better than the other guy, which makes you no better than him, trolls will always have the upper hand in ruining your experience.
nope, i totally agree
Short answer, yes
I never play multiplayer, as I'm so used to playing the AI, I think I'd find playing an actuall human, embarrassing for me, because I'm so used to playing the rather dense AI, heh.
I'd probably do it with a friend, if I knew one who played it.
I'm a lower-middle player. I never play online games, but I may have to try multiplayer sometime. Any particular way I can tell if something's a noob server or not?
Yep, find someone with a low number of total games played and a poor win ratio -- if you play them and find yourself winning easily, they are a noob. On the other hand, if they are dominating you, either they are a smurf, or you are the noob.
I will likely never play a game of SINS against humans because I am such a poor player. Even in team games I am so bad I am a liability to my team!
If I can team up with YOU to play other humans I may consider it in the future.
OT...does this SINS game have any ranking system?
Play on!!!
A lot of new online players play cooperative games against AI. This trains you to be able to play where you can't pause the game to plan your attack or control your ships. As you get better, add AI's of increasing difficulty....then when you are comfortable, switch over to PvP style games...just advertise yourself as a beginner first and don't join the "skilled" games until you are ready.
Yes, I don't feel safe online because I think I'm gonna get pulverized within 20 minutes and not learn anything.
Great! Sounds like some fun games ahead!
Even of you do get Pulverized there is much to learn from it. Just watch the replay and see what the guy who pulverized you did, then try and duplicate his strategy. You'll learn a lot this way, and most of the experienced players in this game started out doing this. Thats what I did. There were times I was lucky enough to play with JohnJames and a couple of the other [DT] guys (who are some of the best at this game) and study their strategies. It wasn't long before I was a functional member of peoples teams, and started having way more fun than fighting an Ai.
Also the forums offered me a lot of insight into peoples strategies, and why they used certain ships and techs over others.
Bleh... I've been inactive for months and I don't feel like reading up on everything so... All I have to say is bite the bullet and take the beating like I'm doing atm Rust fades and skill can be gained.
Grtz,[_]-Flipkik
i have never played online, cause i've always wanted to explore all the tactical and strategic options available to me in a game, instead of just playing the one "best" strategy in order to win.
thats just bullshit for "i dont want to get my ass handed to me on a silver platter." i would probably fall into the lower-middle class, since i'm good against the ai. but after perusing the forums for a year, i feel like its time for me to try out multiplayer. i believe i can pretty much follow the general strategies people use, which i have started to employ agains the ai more
TheRezonator made some very good points above about the people you could find. at some point, you just have to be a bigger man (or woman, for that matter) and just ignore some people
Multiplay is fun. Maybe I have enough background in playing other RTS games online that I was confident enough to put up some scrappy fights before losing my first games vs vets. Losing in the start is a given. (But beating other noobs was pleasing, and later on, beating more experienced players was awesome.)
A few games later, you realize that no one was cheating. They're using some interesting tactics and resource management instead.
You don't have to copy them, but it's wise to generally adapt to the online level of aggressive play. You can get away with slowly building up a fleet vs the Comps, but you have to pick it up a notch vs humans. Do what you can to get as many neutral systems and asteroid belts as possible. You can make strong defenses and turtle at certain points, but keep expanding. That's the key.
As in the case of all good RTS games, SOASE players who seek to dominate most of the map tend to win.
So far, my only problems with multiplay are...
1. ICO startup is slightly counter-intuitive compared to other games. You should just click it, type in name and password in the fields, and boom, shoot right to the gaming lobby. The extra step of selecting your identity and hitting that toggle on the bottom right, while I see is obviously very simple now, confused me and probably many others, who are used to a fast startup.
2. The host can't change a map while the room is created (?)
3. As can be expected with all RTS games online, a very small percentage of the vets are a bit too yappy and blame everything on newer players. Not just in my first games, mind you, but I saw temper tantrum accusations at other noobs. This was pretty rare, true, and happens in all sorts of other online game, but I gotta say - it's just a game, dudes. You sucked at the start too. You're not going to broaden the population by insulting new players who clearly said they just started playing. Stop being so worried about your precious records.
(Ignore that crap if you're new and try to play with other noobs, or the vast majority of vets who are more than willing to help noobs.)
4. Quitting games vs Surrendering. I don't think win-loss records are that important. They're just good because it forewarns experienced players from being mismatched or teamed up with newbies, and vice versa. However, in this game, why even have them if you technically don't even have to report a loss? I've played 20 complete games now and yet my record is 5-5. Not a big deal at all, but the point is - why even keep track?
Ideally, there is no such thing as a "one best" (though with the current imbalances there is, but its not 'unbeatable'). When the game has been closer to balance, the best strategists and most knowledgeable of the game would win. I've found multiplayer has taught me to employ lots and lots of different strategies all in the same game, and often what you'll learn from replays of experienced players is how they build their empire to give themselves as many options for strategies as possible so they can take advantage of their opponents weaknesses.
Also, team games may not be the best place to start playing against real people. Try 1v1s. Likelihood is you'll find someone who doesn't mind answering a few questions you may have, and the games go on for longer giving you the opportunity to try your own strategies against them.
my apologies if this has already been mentioned...
Are there any player leagues for SOASE?
One of my favorite PC games is the GTR2 racing sim. The pickup races for GTR2 can be a hit-and-miss affair at times due to 'wreckers', that is players who deliberately attempt to ruin the race. One way around these wrekcers is the use of racing leagues on password-protected servers.
i also just realized that playing online right now is a bad idea, since my internet connection sucks. in a month, when we move, it should be better
I go online time to time to see if there are any games up.. When there isnt I host a FFA (Because no one is competative in this) or just a simple 2v2 or 3v3 if i can.
But most of the time i wait a long time and not get enough people so I just go play singleplayer
Well if any new players ever see me on ICO, I would love to play a game. I dont care anything about winning or losing. I just play anyone. (oh and also im a noob, so if the good people wanna noob bash me. go ahead)
Right now i only own vanilla. But in a week I will have money set up so that i would be able to pay online for Entrenchment~ Yay~
I stay away mostly due to mods. I rather that game developers prohibit this trend. I like to play a game knowing that the other person is in the same boat as me. Most often mods can give another player a huge advantage, espesially in a strategy game were information is power.
But another big factor is that I suck at the game. I take my time, chill and like to strengthen a planet before moving on. And upgrade everything in order on the tech. On online, I can image it's too fast for me.
I play this game because its one of the slowest rts out there. You can do many things while playing this game.
But honestly if you are a new player, play against the ai first until you can defeat an unfair ai. Then when you can beat 2-3 unfair ai u will be able to hold ground against half the players online or maybe win. You will need to adjust your tactic and strategy but thats what replays are for.
This isn't a problem at all. In fact, you can't join a game if you don't have the same mod(s) as the host. In practice, no one plays mods online, at least not on Ironclad Online, at all. The rules in a game are the same for everyone.
You could probably adapt your play style if you wanted to; everyone else did. Having to make decisions about what to upgrade and what to research is an integral part of the game's strategy. Maybe you should watch some replays of games people have played online to get a sense of how the online game works. You could also log on and play "comp stomps"--just humans v. AI games which would allow you to enjoy chatting to human teammates. Come give it a try. You might like playing the comp stomp games.
I've done comp stomps all the time with unfair and hards... but they are too predictable. - push back the LF spam, fortify one side of the empire, push the other, rinse n repeat...
The problem i have with online is that balance is broken. Illums are the tanks and the DPS ships. repulse is a cheep cheat. z axis is elitism combined with being an a$$ (yes i can use it, but it is not balanced with the game)
I instead just play with friends... and find I am always the one with the huge fleet, balanced econ and largest empire by the 1 hour mark.... so maybe I could play online. But I'm hesetent due to the above metioned issues...
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