Dear @all,
i am very disapointed and angry regarding this new policy of distributing patches ONLY via impulse!! In the future we need one installation per vendor in order to protect our privacy any more. Users with small internet uplinks are not in the focus of this Stardock anymore?
An angry customer.
"Basic game theory and economy will show you that free (ie piracy) wont work, then again, those subjects might require reading and some critical thinking and not just sprouting of some TPB-propaganda."
Quellist, you missed his entire point. He was not saying that Piracy is not a crime, he just was saying that the moral implications of piracy are milder than those of stealing.
Idiot? Propaganda? Whatever you say.
edit, edit2: As for law, watching legit DVD's on linux is technically a copyright infringement (because of copy protection) as far as finnish copyright law is concerned. Laws are not an absolute truth. Laws should never be based on anyone's sense of "right" and "wrong" either for there are as many of these assumptions as there are people. Why not base laws on what works and what doesn't work instead, when this can actually be found out scientifically?
Quellist, If you're a fan of reading and economics, why don't you read Against Intellectual Monopoly by David K. Levine and Michele Boldrin and open your mind a little. You might find out that copyright and patents do not really work as you are usually led to believe.
Thank you if someone actually read my posts without spending all that time to concentrate on posting a counter-argument. I know this is a wrong forum for this kind of conversation, so this will be my last post and I will shut up for now. Sorry, everyone.
You know things have gone off the deep end when people are implying that entering in your UserID and password is the same as DRM.
And there it is.
You want to know the source of most of the anti-Impulse BS? There it is.
I was checking out The Pirate Bay, not that I pirate but you know what? Sins v1.1 isn't on there even though it's been in beta for months.
Sure, you can pirate Sins. Nobody says you can't and I agree that Impulse is just a download updater. But it seems pretty obvious that even having a download manager that requires an email and serial number has some effect.
I am not saying that everyone who hates Impulse is a pirate, far from it. Impulse needs more value add for Sins players. If I could find multiplayer games from it, I would probably be happier with Impulse. But it's not really a big deal and it saves me a lot of time.
Go to page 3 in this thread, search for the word "crime", do not collect 200$.
Sorry, go spout BS someplace else. Piracy is theft. That this form of theft has to be covered by intellectual property, rather than physical property, doesn't change the fact that it is theft. The artists, actors, programmers (music/video/games) have put forth their time and effort to create a product, and have then offered others the use of that product for a fee.
By circumventing that fee (the 'purchase price') you are stealing from them, directly taking out of their pocket the monies they have earned by creating the product. Unless you have paid for the product, you have no right to simply 'take' it.
I only brought up DRM in my posts when others comment that Impulse is an anti-piracy measure. I was careful to qualify anything I said with an "if Impulse is intended to stop piracy". Frogboy has clarified that that is not it's intention and that's fair enough.
What still doesn't make sense about Impulse and restricting patch access for warez/pirate copies of Sins is the lack of DRM on the original retail Sins copies. There was no CD Key, no CD check, nothing that would prevent you from installing the game on more than one PC for private use. I find it odd, and somewhat backwards to leave the core of the game, the essential part to actually play it, unprotected but then turn around and restrict patch access. The contents of the retail DVD would seem far more valuable both to the company and to a software pirate.
I can see Impulse's value to Stardock in it's ability to generate patch content specific to the user's particular needs. It saves them hassle and bandwidth and I congratulate them on their ingenuity in that regard. What I still don't like about Impulse is that I must use it and redownload whenever I want to patch, at least as it stands now. If there was a way to save the downloaded patch files I'd be happier. Even a standalone patch (I personally don't really care about the size) that only requires authentication and downloading once would suit me. It's the "mother may I?" approach to patching everytime that turns me off on Impulse.
-dolynick
Simply put, there's no point in it. Exactly how many games avoid being pirated? No matter how draconian the copy protection you try and use, it doesn't work. So, protect something you can protect -- in this case, they're trying to protect the patches. Its not going to stop piracy in its tracks, but they hardly need to make life easy for the pirates by giving it out for free!
It is...
Digital Rights Management. They are managing your access to their digital content on their servers. What they aren't doing is shoving a pitch fork up your ass and chaining you to your desk at the same time. DRM is an all encompassing term that includes everything from a cd key to anal probing. Those of us who are still rational can grasp and accept this, without going bonkers at the thought of them using DRM. I think I might be in the minority at this point though, which of course leads to entertaining flame wars and validates my continued existence.
What we really need to do is stop calling things like SecuRom and Starforce DRM, and be more specific, such as the aforementioned anal probing. I could be more descriptive of uncomfortable, grotesque and violent things to relate it to, but I live life on the edge so often already...
I find that most of all your points are black and white. Piracy is a certain type of theft, but it is not the same as stealing a car, or a cd, or any real-life object. I am NOT EXCUSING PIRACY, and not defending it either, it just seems like you all are relegating it to the moral status of a full-blown theft.
"Piracy. is. not. stealing." or "Piracy is theft"-- these statements are completely oversimplified. Yes, piracy is illegal. And no, the legality is not what I am talking about.
Piracy is immoral in the sense that you are depriving a corporation of their justly earned income when you pirate a product that you would have bought if piracy was not available.
But the crucial difference between piracy and stealing lies in the essence of stealing itself. When you steal an object, you are actually impeding the owner, DIRECTLY. The implications of piracy are more subtle. First of all, you are not taking away from their "storage" of programs, like you would a collection of real life objects. The only reason that piracy is harming companies is because it is allowing people who would have bought their product anyway to instead have it for free.
The danger that Piracy presents to Stardock would lie only in the buyers who WOULD have bought the game. Pirating something that you wouldn't have bought anyway is neither depriving a company of their money or directly taking away from their wealth.
Again, I am not saying that Piracy doesn't represent a critical threat. I would just question those who would immediately excuse it, or those who would condemn all aspects of it.
I agree and hey, if the person is registered on the forum then they don't even need to do much to identify themselves for Impulse, cause its all linked. If some people can't type in a simple alphanumeric code or simple information then really they shouldn't be playing games .
On a sidenote, I really like Impulse and I will be supporting Stardock anyways I can. While I do not have a credit card to buy from Impulse, I will look for Stardock retail products in stores. When I turn 18 in 2 years then I will be able to use DD but right now its all retail for me.
Cheers from Canada
Well said, the police keeping surveilance of public places to keep order is no different than they tapping your phone and watching you in your own home.
I think impulse is a great idea(try loading you other d\l games after you hdd burps and see what that does for your lifeforce time spent;-)LOL...
It took less time to get impluse and my 5 games(count 'em 5) back up and running than winxppro with sp2 to 3 and my drivers from my mobo and vido card....
And I CAN run SoaSE w\o impulse...but I'll let the CEO guy tell you how(if he chooses)....
remember the door to Moria in LOTR???
give it some thought;-)....
LTR,
ZKZ
Double click on the shortcut? Impulse is not Steam, by design you don't need impulse running to run Impulse games.
Amusingly, I'm usually the one talking about shades of gray
Past that, Pale Onyx, the fact remains that piracy is a form of theft, even if it does not 'remove' from their physical possession anything.
While I think the poster took his position a few steps to far, on some level I initially agreed with him.
The reality is that while there is a clearly different attitude here at Stardock, you are selling in a cynical world and I would argue that when I initially heard about "Impulse" the last thing I had in mind was that it was only a simple dowload manager (which I would argue that it is not just that...).
For whatever reason, I believed that it was yet another piece of software like so many others that opens yet another door on my machine for someone, anyone, to get inside. I would further argue that in it's initial introduction to me, that it's capabilities were vague, and I compared it to so many other pieces by other publishers and that's the last thing that you want to present to the gaming world. We're paranoid enough as it is, and here is yet another piece of code to consider.
Consider that regardless of what it really is or isn't, for some, given the history we've endured elsewhere, a piece of code that "goes and determines what you have or don't have" is already enough of an intrusion for it to not be trusted.
Frankly, I'm learly about installing ANY software on my machine, regardless of how passive it is. The less I have to install, the less I have to worry about and being that it wasn't initially required, with it now being required to maintain the status quo, the playing field has changed and therefor the status quo isn't...
At the end of the day, (so far...), I think I'm OK with Impluse. It does seem to be "passive", it does seem to do as advertised (although I still say it could have been presented much better...) and seems to get out of the way when you're done with it... (It does go away when I shut it down, right???)
Like I said in the beginning, I believe the initial poster took his position to far, but if you completely discount the concept, I believe you're missing the bigger picture... Everyone seems to feel all warm and cozy here, as do I, but remember the forest where you've planted your tree, it's full of dark and scary places with wolves in grandma's clothes...
Well said mjkawecki.
While I think the poster took his position a few steps to far, on some level I initially agreed with him. The reality is that while there is a clearly different attitude here at Stardock, you are selling in a cynical world and I would argue that when I initially heard about "Impulse" the last thing I had in mind was that it was only a simple dowload manager (which I would argue that it is not just that...). For whatever reason, I believed that it was yet another piece of software like so many others that opens yet another door on my machine for someone, anyone, to get inside. I would further argue that in it's initial introduction to me, that it's capabilities were vague, and I compared it to so many other pieces by other publishers and that's the last thing that you want to present to the gaming world. We're paranoid enough as it is, and here is yet another piece of code to consider. ... as you wrote, another piece of software which does something on your pc. All of them promise to accept your privacy - i dont trust them either. This has nothing to do with impulse. It´s in gerneral. Some may call it paranoya - however. Take a closer look into the web, best example is google. Collecting data in the manner of improving their services. Of course they do - but i am sure, they know more over your neighbor than you . Observing people here may say, they have already the oportunity in the game itself to collect data....however. In a second, it is unacceptable being forced to do something in order to keep status quo. There is no choice for me as customer. I am personel no friend of it thats why i startet this thread. A lot of good arguments have been raised here, and it is a good discoussion. We will what the future brings. An online distribution is a nice thing, never the less - a dvd in my hands is much better . I used some online portals to buy songs - all of them promised you can download your owned songs every time again. Well some of them disapeard over night...
... as you wrote, another piece of software which does something on your pc. All of them promise to accept your privacy - i dont trust them either. This has nothing to do with impulse. It´s in gerneral. Some may call it paranoya - however. Take a closer look into the web, best example is google. Collecting data in the manner of improving their services. Of course they do - but i am sure, they know more over your neighbor than you . Observing people here may say, they have already the oportunity in the game itself to collect data....however.
In a second, it is unacceptable being forced to do something in order to keep status quo. There is no choice for me as customer. I am personel no friend of it thats why i startet this thread.
A lot of good arguments have been raised here, and it is a good discoussion. We will what the future brings. An online distribution is a nice thing, never the less - a dvd in my hands is much better .
I used some online portals to buy songs - all of them promised you can download your owned songs every time again. Well some of them disapeard over night...
BTW, if piracy is not theft, then neither is taking money, would everyone here please send all of your cash to ...
Piracy is not theft??? Please....
I wouldn't say that the two are exactly the same, I would classify Piracy more along the lines of copying restricted files.
To the OP:Either get Impulse and update properly or go home. Gripes about copy protection stuff or content for "registered" users just automatically stamps the "Tosser/pirate/asshat" label clearly on your forehead.
Understand they are not selling copies and you are using their servers to run your games. Going to a thrid party distributer is not un common. They are not releasing your your info on the web anymore then you are doing to yourself. They do require a little more skill ( Frameworks must be downloaded) to run their software, however who doesn't ( i.e. flash, adobe and so on)
Perhaps -- just perhaps -- this is a case of the English language not having the right words to state the appropriate distinctions; nonetheless, piracy is a form of theft, whatever you want to try and name it. You are taking something that does not belong to you, and the group that produced it is suffering as a result.
The paranoia is understandable with EA's recent behavior. But if Impulse is up to no good, I haven't heard or seen anything yet. Stardock and certainly IC are hardly corporate darksiders.
When I first went to download a patch for Sins and found this Impulse client, I was pretty PO'd, I believe I shouted, "What the F*** is the s***? I actually pay for f****** software and you f****** want to put this f****** s*** on my f****** computer!" And so on, it lasted for quite a while... I'm sure that any inferences you make about my past game acquistions would be reasonably accurate, so I scoured the internet for such a copy of the Sins patch, found none, conceided to Impulse, launched into another tirade when I realized I needed my CD key, scoured the internet for a keygen, found none, got off my lazy a** to search for my box... three days later I downloaded Impulse... and actually I love it. I did some more reading, realized that now I will never need to look for that d***** box again, even if I reinitiallize my computer which happens almost on a monthly basis (my OS is legitimate, I just like to play). It makes updates incredibly easy, even if it does take f-o-r-e-v-e-r to load (my internet is via my cell phone), once it is loaded the updates themselves download plenty quick, if I check for them often enough, and it's not too bad on resources. I think their definately is room for improvement, but that is the way with anything revolutionary. I think as a whole the concept is wonderful and the implimentation is far better than we've any right to expect. Frogboy is by far the world's most badass CEO, and Stardock as a whole is an incredible forward thinking company, perfectly in sync with the times and decades ahead of the competition.
I can agree with this, the english language has enough nuances as it is. Personally I don't think Piracy is the right word for it.
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