A while ago this was mentioned about Elemental, this was way before it was officaly anouced however.
'You can zoom out and see a cloth map of the world - and these are randomly generated worlds that look as if someone painstakingly created it with a sophisticated map editor, which the game does have built-in, too - and then zoom all the way in to a leaf on an individual tree in a forest in one smooth loop, where the ground and trees look as good as you’d expect in a high-end first-person shooter. '
Now the curent scren shots don't show any where near this level of detail, is this a cut feature, and if so how close can you zoom now, and what will it look like when zoomed in very close? I am loving the current art style, so I was wondering what the LoD close up is now.
Damn posers!
The prior opinion does not express my feelings on the art. In short, I think it is very cool.
Note: this is coming from a guy with a $15k+ rig.
Rant over!
It's stylized fantasy art at it's best, in my opinion.
I wouldn't take seriously a "gamer" that only takes seriously games because of their art/graphics. I would expect serious (real) wargamers, just to mention one group, to value the game becuase of its possibilities as a game and not because of how it looks.
And lets not forget that
Disciples is a quite clear example of that, right?
I totally agree with you here. Lets have that in the gameplay/strategies/elements/mechanics/... that are what really matters.
I don't know understand why people expects devs to be innovative/creative in the code part of a game, but expects them not to be innovative/creative in the art/graphics part of the game (appart from the usual "make it real!", "Dark mood" etc, including all the emo theme that people asks for). I truly believe that the current art is original, good and that suits the game well. But i won't be playing the game because of them as i don't play MoM, Lords of the Realm (the first one, the only good one) or games like that for similar reasons.
Same for me.
Arhhhh the old 'Gameplay is more important than look' routine... to some degree I would agree. I however wish to break this tired old arguement once and for all.
Where does it say that you CANT have an attractive looking game, exploiting all the current technologies AND have great gameplay.
Just listen to yourselves..
"Dont take this guy seriously...he likes good looking games. He cant be a serious gamer"
Dont settle for a compromise, demand BOTH!!!!! Who are the Dev's designing this game for, themselves or us THE PAYING CUSTOMER?
......they say never judge a book by its cover, but sadly alot of purchasers do (fact). I am a huge fantasy fan. I read, watch, play PC & Pen n Paper fantasy, and this world they have created quite frankly puts me off with its 'Fairy tale' feel.
If they want to be taken seriously, look serious!
If you want to go with an tired old routine, take the "IM A PAYING CUSTOMER LOL I PAY YOUR SALARY!!!!!1!!1!one!1eleven"-charade. And I once again want to stress that this has nothing to do with the graphics; It's about the art. I can easily play a game with rubbish graphics, but I'll quickly get tired of it if the art is sub-par.
And in the case of Elemental, I don't see how anyone with a serious appreciation for beauty and excellence (be it of the nightmarish or the aloof angelic kinds) can complain at Elemental's art.
The art is fully reminiscent of the highly stylized fantasy art of 60's, 70's & 80's. In fact, dare I say, to a degree that one could easily mistake it for some right from the JRRT collection. With that said, maybe a lot of young pups in the gamer world have a crippling lack of historical appreciation of their hobby and have no interest in learning about it directly, but those of that do and see the art of game making as just that - an art form, seem to find it ascetically appealing and liken it an ode of some degree to some of the greatest fantasy artists ever.
For anyone interested I spent a lot of time finding the following cornucopia of images from the bye gone era. If you are interested in see some rather high resolution scans of all the greats and many forgotten fantasy artists then go here.
@SD - I think the site is perfectly legal in its host country but it would clearly be shut down in the USA. If you don’t think the link is proper then do your thing.
Beauty and excellence - As a Graphic Artist myself I cannot fault the ability and styling of the artists. My problem is the 'Pitch' for want of a better word. If your fantasy is childrens story books, young girls dreaming of towers and princesses (fluffy and cute) then this artwork is more than worthy of gracing any hard backed book.
Is it right for a 'serious' fantasy wargame? I dont think so.... and I feel that one of the future sticking points will be for the majority average joe, will be "yeah sounds a great game, looks pants though". 'Pants' not a reflection on the quality of the artwork, but more being not quite right for the genre or game.
........we'll see. Its still early. I dont expect a complete revamp of the artwork (somebody's already said go with it) but what I do expect is getting some sandpaper on it and roughening it up alittle, cute and cartoony has its place but not in a wargame!
Money says that. To which you could add time (very closely related to money too, and to bills) between other factors. I'm not saying that it's not possible to have good gameplay and graphics/art, but that the priority should be always gameplay. If i want to pay for art alone, i'll go to a museum, thanks. But i buy games to PLAY them.
There are too many games out there that sacrified gameplay for the sake of looking "good". Considering the relatively lack of (good) fantasy 4x games out there, i prefer to make sure that this one focuses in what really matters. IF they can also provide us with good art/graphics without sacrificing gameplay, then even better.
Graphics are not finaly yet (obviously) and they will improve. Art is (as far as i know) final and subjet (as any other art) to personal points of view. The art seems fine to me even if the first itme i saw it i was like "Wtf?". And that was only because i was expecting something not originall at all. The only fairy tale feeling i could attribute to it, would be the mix with the unfinished graphics. Those trees look weird but their are not earthlings but fantasy ones so... Maybe we should see more "dark art" so people could appreciate more what that art can offer (in the light and dark sides of this game). Time will tell.
Stardock makes games that they want to play, they are gamers too. They have an style and they prefer to be loyal to that style than to "sell their soul". They won't go after you and try to force you to buy it. They will let you know what they have and let you choose if you are interested.
By the way, you are only a PAYING customer if you have paid for the product. And if you bought it, it's (in theory) because you knew what you were buying. Oh, and the preorder doesn't count as "paying customer". Not untill the beta starts and the preorders are payed.
Damn, what a rant. Sorry guys.
Serious fantasy wargame? I find this concept a bit strange.
I am reminded of a friend of mine, who did not want to watch cartoons as they were too childish. "But you watch Japanese cartoons all the time!" I responded, shocked. He went on to insist that they were anime and manga, and somehow escape the classification of cartoons. I, obviously, remain unconvinced.
So why is this an appropriate comparison? Because a 'serious fantasy wargame' is childish (well, adolescent) escapism too, only with more machismo.
I'll stick my caveat on the end of that: people are of course allowed to like or dislike art as they feel. I just think it's a bit pretentious to say you're above it on grounds of maturity.
The game is just colorful and the graphic don't look deep yet because isn't finished. If you look the character/creatures models or faces, they are not cute. Most people like and isn't to much influenciable over graphics, likeing the different kinds there are. There are many games out there you can call 'cartoon', and if you don't feel confortable with that, you are the one restricted from enjoying many good games. A lot of fantasy games choose a colorful look and fit to it, the same thing isn't used for Space games; why? because they are inteded to feel magical, alive, beautifull and shine (not my foult if you feel gay from that, because I don't /jk ) and you can achieve that with a colorful (vivid) world, while a Space game is better if felt mysterious because the universe and the future are. Graphics are representative on how they want the player to feels.
Colorful graphics are more inviting; the most important thing about graphics tough, is the art style/designs. Do dragons look cool enough? (in the images that show the creatures, they are colorful like the theme, but they look more serious than in most games, like the crocodile for exemple). If you dislike a kind of graphic you'll just be the one very retricted, missing good games, with great gameplay, that is the most important thing. Graphics of a game are just a small component of it, its not smart to judge any game from it. And you be sure, Stardock team understands of art design, has their games did it fine from beggning and only improves.
I think its really good for exemple, the design of the city and castle interiors and that it expands, the dragons and the trees that have some "pink" ones mixed in (I guess to everything don't look to greeny). And has they want the battles to look like in that movies, anyone can expect some very cool animations. A graphics in a picture can be very different from when it is in motion.
Its not smart from anyone to say it is bad technically. In its simplicity and unfinished, the graphics are detailed and carefuly made. The fact anyone says it is bad is just based on a very personal opinion that might be understandable or because is someone who expect/depends to much of graphics and visuals, either will not help yourself in any way for games. No good professional designer would say that the graphics here are bad. But most people will find it just ok has it is now. It will be better. Also there is the people that let themselves get dumbed down from games with amazing graphics (technicaly speaking, like hard to do) but of commom or generic gameplay.
The most important thing about it, in my opinion, the design, is very nice till now. I like this image for exemple: https://www.elementalgame.com/Screenshots/Kingdom_Scott_City_1280.jpg.
Also depending on how good a game is, its looks do get better or worst. And aside from cartoon graphics, there are many other important things (maybe even more) like the animations. Get a simple stick game with very cool animation and effects, might look down on a picture and a game with a good picture, have clunk or limited moviments. Talking about a game visuals in general, its important to see it also in motion and finished.
I personaly like games with simple but well made detailed visuals. It don't remove the attention of the player especially for strategy games. If I think about playing a game like CivIV:Colonization (good and full graphics) on multiplayer, then think about the simplier/cleanier graphics of Elemental, I'd sure prefer the least. Some graphics might feel better and amazing earlier, but not so much after some time when you saw it to much (for a strategy game where you need to think sometimes and will be looking at it a lot). Graphics like that can be more tiresome, and less inviting (feel heavier) like I said earlier.
Its really nice to look at Elemental pictures, I think while in the map it will be most comparable with the one from ROTK XI , which have those very cool amazing artistic graphics, but instead not cartoon or so colorful has Elemental. It can feel like if hand made or 2D.
Sry english mistakes.
Fantasy is a broad term, like with any other genre! All can encompass various age groups and tastes.
You can have Childrens fantasy and Adult fantasy....surely you can grasp that concept?
My humble opinion is that this artwork leans towards childlike (fairytale) fantasy. If this is your bag then enjoy, but I think its wrong for the type of game.
This is a 4x game, not a wargame. You're in the wrong genre, dude.Sure, you wage war as a part of most (basicly all) 4x games, but it's still a far cry from games like Total War or other, very specific, wargames as a genre.
And I maintain that while highly stylized, there's nothing inherently 'childish' or 'fairytale-like' with the Elemental art. When we start seeing an abundant use of smiling suns, bunnies and rainbows, I'll be on the page with you, but as of now - no.
And it's absolutely perfect for this type of game, with broad stylized art, boldly outlined, rather than to center on a superrealistic approach, which no-one will ultimately enjoy due to the natural vista of 4x gaming.
To wage war you need all of the 4x....eXplore, eXpand, eXploit, and eXterminate!
Its got a map, resource and a tactical battle section.
its a wargame!!!!!
While some inferior wargames allow you to steam roll, and while some less imaginative players favour this option...a true wargame allows victory via more intelligent means.
....All you are convincing me of is this'll be one of the better fantasy wargames, let down by mainstream 'cute' fantasy gfx!
You know, speaking about "serious wargamers".
Are they, like, the same as manly man?
Can't enjoy anything which is colourfull and not gritty dark realistic stuff, or else your manhood is destroyed? Just wondering...
Or how should I interprete that?
----------------------------
Really, sometimes I despair of humanity, but then I look at my avatar and see a cute girl which is so badass that she will not only kill you with her lance, nah she'll land on your head and kill you in a really shameful way.
Besides, the art direction is perfect for Pegaus Knights!
Edit: Since the... continues:
When was the last time you saw a game with this art style?
I'm awaiting your examples in... like never.
I'd have to say that having a serious art style is the way to look serious. And by that I don't mean by having a dark gritty warhammer 6th ed+ style of art, I mean an art style that have a lot of thought and emotion behind. This does!
Waspartan said
I have no idea what you mean by "mainstream 'cute'" because when I think "mainstream" I think of people that have opinions like yours. The 'happiest' fantasy they watch over the age of 10 is Lord of the Rings with the dark caves of moria and dark riders. Nothing 'cute' there. D&D is very serious structure these days with 'dark' images and character depected in the books. Much darker than anything here. Warhammer is about decapitated heads, and even warcraft prior to ESRB getting their hands on it was very dark and serious (I still think of Hellscream as having blood pouring down his face). And since WoW is the only thing close to 'cute' that mainstream fantasy that I can think of that must mean that Waspartan is full of ****.
So, since obviously the casual mainstream games these days are all dark fantasy, this game is standing out by going back to a more classical fantasy. Seems like the right thing to do to me.
Added Edit: Also, what is "cute" about this art style? When I think 'cute' I think my little pony or hello kitty. Something with giant nose or head to appeal to children. This isn't like that at all. This art style looks more like it was painted, rather than misproportioned to look like children fan service. I'm looking at the different medalions and stuff provided as art in the teaser trailers and what have you... and I don't see anything cute. Heck, I don't even see anything that looks cuddly (you know how a tiger looks like it would be fun to cuddle, even though it is like 500 pounds of muscle and teeth. The birds come close, but thats it). Even the bears I used in the fan-bear cavalry look pretty sinister. Spartan's (realy spartan, not waspartan for those who wonder) avatar is dark, and thats among the first art of elemantal stardock gave us. What could you possibly mean?
Examples of Cute = Candy floss trees, Cartoon scout, the classic fairy tale castle...all plopped into a warm and fuzzy landscape.
https://www.elementalgame.com/Screenshots/Kingdom_Scott_City_1280.jpg
* all we need is a series of gold floating coins for the Scout to walk into and its perfect. Ping, ping, ping!!!!
Sometimes pictures speak louder than words.... and cant be argued against.
UH? what does that have to do with coins? Your strech of logic baffles me? Are you trying to relate it to mario? Lets assume that makes any sense. Now, you've yet to identify what is "cute" about anything, because I certainly don't see "candy floss" anywhere in that picture.
This is cartoon, but I'm not about to pretend its cute or not-serious.
(by clicking the above link you are agreeing that you are over the age 18 and that you do not mind blood and gore)
I don't see how that castle is particularly classic fairy tale either. This and this are "cute" fairy tale castles. Clearly not the same
I'm pretty sure you stand alone with your opinion. That being said, any developers that might be reading I hope pay little mind.
Why is this game graphics *to much cute for you, that almost hurts* and for the majority is just a colorful graphic style? (Like many other games used, I must say). Are you affected by it or is it everybody else?
Like I said, apart from it being colorful, the game is not trying to be cute. The expressions and the models don't follow it. But it do try to be beautiful, its not the same thing.
I'd suggest sticking that warning before the link. It really is quite disturbing......
On topic, I agree with everyone that the art style, while colorful and reminiscent of watercolors, is not at all "cute." I noticed that fake-spartan said that the scout looks cute. Uhh, what? The scout looks like a stylized watercolor painting of a person. I get the impression that you would think anything that couldn't be mistaken for a photograph of the real world is cute. The scout, for example, looks no more cute than the workers in Civilization, or half the units in HoMM (which was and is quite a popular game).
On the other hand I do agree that the bright pink trees interspersed throughout the otherwise completely green forest looks odd, but not because they're pink. It'd look equally strange if the pink trees were dark blue, or red. Any of those colors could work well, but they need to add more intermediate shades for it to work, IMO.
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