I've been getting a lot of email since the announcement of the Gamers Bill of Rights -- quite a bit from game developers who make the argument that it's easy to throw stones at what other people but what solution do we suggest for them?
For example, one of the things I've seen is that Stardock is "anti-DRM" in all cases. This isn't true. WindowBlinds, for example, requires activation. In fact, nearly all our software requires activation. Yet, you rarely if ever see anyone complain about it. Why is that? Because our activation is largely invisible, most people aren't aware of it. The beta of Demigod has activation in it too. Yet, it too is invisible to the user.
So clearly, activation, unto itself, isn't necessarily a problem. Yet clearly with Spore, people had a big problem with it. What's the difference? The difference in my opinion is the arbitrary limitations set ("3 activations" for instance). Or more generally, anything that materially interferes with a legitimate customer's ability to use their game.
So those people who were so unhappy with Spore's activation, I'd be curious to hear what specifically bothered them? What was it about Spore that causes such an uproar versus things done in the past?
Here are things that annoy me about various types of copy protection:
My tolerance may be higher than others, hence why I'd like to try to understand what caused the Spore backlash.
As others know, our games ship with no CD copy protection at all since not all users have Internet access but we require users to download our free updates from us so that we know (to a high degree) that only legitimate customers are getting our free updates. And even with that laid back system, some people still object. So we'd like to get an idea of what invisible threshold you think Spore crossed that made so many people upset.
Just a follow-up to my comments pertaining to the tying of products to the companies that publish them.
Battlefield 2 and Battlefield 2142 have to be THE worst/best examples of the sort of thing I am diametrically opposed to. Before I can even change my Options (!!!!!!!!!) I MUST successfully register with one of EA`s online servers. Every time I start the games by the way.
This is absolutely unacceptable. If somehow and for some reason I and my friends still play DOOM, we can fire up our own multiplayer server. More importantly, if I wish to play the game in single player, I still can. And amazingly, if I wish to go into my configuration screen and adjust my controls, I CAN.
That cannot be done with such an intrusive and unfair system as I mentioned previously. It *should* be possible, but... .
Btw, Sierra just recently announced the deactivation of several game servers by title -- I believe Blue`s News has the list as part of one of their headlines.
Such ties are perilous and counter to good commerce, in my opinion. Certainly horrible for the consumer.
The server list is as follows:
I wonder if game owners will be able to run their own servers for these titles now.
@sandstig
About torrent sites removing torrent links on request, i think when Galciv 2 came out after a few weeks, some of the torrent sites were pretty good at agreeing to do it. I read that stardock have actuallly requested them to do it. I know Isohunt specifically requested that if a publisher request that links to torrent downloads be removed, they would agree to such a request.
I realize that a service such as a company-provided server system costs money and cannot therefore be provided in perpetuity, especially for non-blockbuster titles (contrast the Sierra listings to Blizzard`s StarCraft for example), but then again this ought to be the most obvious of arguments for not tying core functionality to external apparati.
bought spore at the release, i didn't know about the securom issue but then i saw that this game was f****d up with such a thing
i was so pissed off that i uninstalled all my ea games on my pc including spore (i now use the dvd under my cofee mug)
removed the EADM software, removed securom from my system (i hope) and i promise and i alway keep them
i'll never buy again an EA game until they stop adding crap on they're released games or until they are a dead company
they don't deserve to have us as customers.
i know people that just downloaded the game puting the crack and now playing it without any hassle, they can setup it later and that never burn any installation, it's unfair from ea to keep using this kind of software protection, so i'll be unfair with them and i'll make all i can to have my friend never buy again any ea games with this crap on it. it's all about respect of the customer and they don't have any.
that was the bad part... now, the good part... i jumped directly to the stardock website and i bought SIN OF A SOLAR EMPIRE.
so there's some good questions that some company might think off:
it's so easy to get pirated games so why people contiue to buy them ?
why using copy protection as they are useless some days after the release or in some cases before the release ?
why wasting our money to put some protection that cost a lot and are inefectives?
is the people using pirated version had buy the game if it where not cracked ?
who are the people that are upset by our copy protections ?
well keep up the good work stardock
Oh dear, that's one of the games I own. Although I don't really haven't touched the multiplayer. I suppose it does have their DRM, though .
Some of us actually have a conscience.
Because the companies never quite learn how ineffective it is.
If I'm understanding your poor grammar correctly, yes.
I'm not upset so much at the laws themselves, I'm mostly upset at the useless and intrusive methods they are trying to use to enforce it.
And some of us want to pay developers to keep developing even though we believe current (c) is a bunch of twaddle rooted in monarchist/mercantilist thinking and does far more to enrich massive corporations than it does for most creative talent in the business. At the very least, we need a reform that requires specific, live humans to own a given (c), not amorphous blobs of antisocial bureaucracy.
The best "copy protection" is the kind of ongoing service that Stardock provides, and the promise that they hold for future titles.
QFT +++
A game I am greatly looking forward to is Left4Dead from Valve. Their Steam system is offering pre-orders, which I would avail myself of *if* I received a hard copy of the game. As it is, I would not, therefore I refuse to order.
I will never entrust some digital domain out there in the ether with something I pay for. Savage 2 (due for a major combat mechanic improvement, btw... yay...) was digital, but the company in that case sent me a package. Thats the way I like it.
I don`t mind Steam, but every game I buy I want a physical copy, unreliant upon another. My Half-Life 2 and HL Episode 1 & Episode 2 are out of the box, from a retail shelf. If they go completely digital, I am one sale they`ll lose.
The Stardock system is superior to Steam, btw, imo, and thats disregarding the physical copy issue. I do not need to file an electronic report with a server somewhere before I play my game, every time I play my game - Big Brother is not in my house.
Right?
And then there is XKCD's commentary on it;
A great graphic. It should run in all newspapers. Maybe then the general public will understand.
I would not buy a game that limits me on how many times I can install it. I buy a game which in my mind means I can install it and uninstal it as many times as I want.
I will never buy any EA products now that I know it's their policy. I love NHL xx games but I don't know if they have it but I am not buying anything from them anymore.
It seems they treat their paying customers as pirates. very poor customer service. I played Diablo 2 for a very long time, still do on occasions and I still hate having to get the cd but it's something I can live with and the account cd keys are in and I can install it as many times as I want and believe me since that game is out I have installed it on 5 different pcs. I'm the only one thatb plays it so dang if I will limit how many times I want to install a game I BOUGHT!
I found stardock when I got Galciv 2 and when I saw I did not need a cd to play I was so happy. When I saw I had a choice of getting updates I was so happy. when I saw I could download the game online as many times as I want I was happy. No cd no limit on intallation. As far as I can see they seem to be doing very well with piracy.
That's my 2 coppers.
Customers are important don't dang with them.
Steve
Dont forget EA not only treats paying customers as pirates but considers them nimrods as well - especially so if they disagree with company policy. After all the company policy to always to protect and support the "consumer". The company president has stated this several times already in interviews.
When will we all finally realize, most free-market tactics & as a result, capitalism ideology clearly puts 80+/-% of Earth's total population in poverty?
While greed and reasonably progressive living conditions serve as excuses for the few?
Sure... social equity might seem the 'sum of many centuries' worth of personal fortunes & multiple *indirect* death - but, one can always live in the illusion of Utopia while dreaming of a fair world to all.
I pay for softwares cuz i KNOW someone worked really hard to do it and truly deserve my attention.
Games allow me to disconnect from the obvious consequences of such realities & to still hope that ONE day, honesty will simply destroy criminality - until then, i play.
Wrong, you've posted in this very thread... BB is still continually watching over your shoulder.
So you're a communist and a capitalist at the same time huh?
Sometimes hope can be fleeting. There is an extraordinary number of hoops to jump through to fully remove it. (And even then one can't be completely sure). I got reamed by the Creature Creator. I have cleaned most of the schmutz out, but there are still a couple of locked reg entries that I have yet to remove. I will never again spend so much as a single penny on any product related to EA or Sony.
Impulse is most certainly not SecurRom, but it makes me nervous nontheless. It has insinuated itself into my computer, and there is no obvious/easy way to uninstall it. There is no uninstaller attached to the startup menu, it doesn't show up at all in the add/delete program files, and even REVO can't find it. I could clean my backside with a Japanese bidet and Revo would still find half a dozen dingleberries; yet it can't find a single Impulse entry.
In answer to your question: I believe that this model is potentially the best- Registering the game and giving frequent updates is a proven, workable system...but your increasingly heavyhanded way of implementing this system is pushing me away from you.
Yep. Nothing truly strange with that to be honest. In fact all the great communist countries had such people. The political word was "red capitalist". In the end it all comes down to a degree or two ideologically speaking.
That's an extremely worrisome observation for those of us who've avoided Impulse so far but still have interest in NotMoM. I have TGN tokens in the bank that I bought expressly in support of NotMoM--and before I'd heard a thing about Impulse. I joined early Impulse balking from GC2-land, but recently began to assume the shakedown phase that's causing so much forum noise would be over by the time I needed to seriously consider whether to install it. But I don't think I'll be able to spend those tokens if this situation is accurate now and still holds when the title gets a name and goes into public beta. At least I already practice various forms of voluntary taxation and I can pretend my pre-spent dollars might have bought a nice little treat for Cari or another GC2 dev.
Some of us just call it "socialist" and make no excuses about believing that markets have their uses, but if they are left absolutely "free" inevitably lead to unacceptable problems, e.g. starvation in proximity to masses of stored food. I believe it is reasonable to expect everyone to work for their daily bread, but it is unreasonable (or, perhaps more accurately, evil) to let anyone starve if you have food to share. Feed a bum today and you can hassle him tomorrow about getting his act together...
From what I can tell, it's largely corruption that causes povery, no matter what the underlying economic structure is. I'm willing to bet it's not the principles themselves, but rather abuse of the principles that are the primary causes poverty.
I fear such a thing will always be with us. Even in this forum, which represents a small fraction if the total users of software, we have heard from people who make excuses for engaging in theft.
Odd. Impulse showed up in my add/remove programs (actually "Programs and Features" since I'm using Vista) in the control panel.
Try reinstalling it and see if that restores the icon to uninstall it.
Now that sounds just plain kinky
But I *would* like to gain some confidence that Mistralok's report is a weird moment and not some "normal" subset of Impulse behavior. Mistralok, have you posted about this in the Impulse support area? (I stopped reading there a while ago because I wanted to try resisting my Impulse resistance.)
No, I haven't, as this is something that I only recently noticed. I will post over there today and see what Stardock has to say about the situation. It is possible that my download got borked somehow, but I find it strange that this would be the only thing that happened, since Impulse is fully functional in every other way.
I'm not here to trash Impulse. Overall, it has worked very well for me. I downloaded Demigod, The Political Machine, and the latest GalCiv beta through it, and they all went off without a hitch. The program itself is a bit sluggish, but the downloads are speedy.
@CobraA1: I don't doubt that you have that entry, but believe me; I don't. Impulse should still have an attached uninstaller. Windows is notoriously bad at deleting programs- it leaves all sorts of odds and ends behind. The most troubling thing to me is the fact that Revo can't find it. For those who may be reading this and don't know: Revo is an excellent stand-alone uninstaller program. It has never failed to completely clean out anything that I have asked it to. Why Impulse is hidden to it is a mystery to me, unless it is deliberately being hidden, in which case I am sorely dissapointed in Stardock.
Neither - seriously!
I'm more of the Utopian type (which, in fact, is a weird paradox and at least irrational if taken into context) & since, Karl Marx & Friedrich Nietzsche probably solved the multitude of social concepts for awhile there's no ideological facts worth someone's time considering WE are all into it **against** our will.
Judging from the actual situations though (last week, there WAS a true financial global crash wickedly hidden on split calculations buffered to prevent panic) , both KM & FN have been proven wrong - i'd say.
Just waiting to collapse. Total Chaos. Billions of profit - vanishing.
Europe hands over 2.5bE (following up on America's example) to their banks - while famine in Africa kills.
My "definition" of futuristic capitalism might a lot different than many others, as would any sort of Communist_Socialist_Fundamentalist_***ist.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Not the OS. Bad executables made by "incoherent" programmers.
Just the other day, i had this *trial_demo* setup for a quick glance at a drawing program and upon re-booting Vista its self-installer (msi) would soon kick-in. Again, a day later. Continual loop -- for nothing.
Uninstalled the silly stuff.
Gone.
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