How many words do I need to have this in Demigod, and it not have any silly recipes?
Picture = thousand words.
There should be a max of like "3 points" or whatever to use for upgrades, PER ITEM. So.. you can only reach 1 of the final paths. At least that's what I think.. otherwise the prices would need to go up after each point you spend, or something..
If an item has more than 2 stats then the different ones would be grouped together in either path.If an item only has 1 stat then one path would upgrade that, the other would add a new one.(or just all items should have a minimum of 2 stats.)
Another good point about this is that it'd reduce clutter in the shop. About 40% or so of the items in the shop are basically slight variation sof each other, or upgrades of each other. It would stream line things a lot. =] More accesibility = great.
Rolling over Items would bring up something like this:
I don't think starting with a blank item is better though. I think this way is better because the devs can still control balance. I think it's ideal to have the tree exactly like that for each item. 2 choices for the first upgrade(upgrade 1, or upgrade 2), 2 choices for the 2nd upgrade(the other upgrade, or lvl 2 of the current upgrade.) And then the last upgrade is forced based on the first 2 upgrades.
Like one item should have a +damage aura, yeah, as one of the 3 paths. But you might have to choose upgrades before it that you don't like. (Like in my example say I want that middle example that gives all "%chance skills/abilities a 10% increased chance to trigger". I might want to have higher IAS instead of some IAS, some amor, but I sacrifice some IAS to get that bonus instead of the double-hitting chance.)
I thought about single level upgrades(have items like the current ones, have like a lvl 2 and lvl3 upgrade that boosts its stats across the board, maybe adds a new stat at hte very end.) And I thought of being able to simply add whatever you want.. But I think this way would be best for the variaty, gameplay, and flow of the game.
If you could just put any upgrade to any item, people would be more likely to always pick the same ones. The tree requires you to make choices
I think what they mean by a blank item is that it would be level 0 and upgrade to the level 1 items that you would put in the store. This would let you combine the store and the blacksmith and have only one building to click on.
Actually, what i mean is just like putting 5 base items into a starting point of the tree, it'll be easier to consider all the possibility of upgrading in a single page. Better than clicking at shop to see base items and then click on upgrade shop to see how we can upgrade them.
What i mean is there's still a tree for stats boost as you suggested, just passive and active to be added. And not you can add any, there's a set of skills to added into boot for example: you can add only +10% movement aura, +10% armor aura on boot. We can make balance by changing cost to add the skills and removing skills from this set.
This way the combination is so vast and you can make it suitable for countering your enemy play style during the match. Say if you are forced to get ability depend on the upgrade stat tree, sometime you may end up getting some stats that don't really needed and that's not the best for the situation you're on for sure. Also i consider this to be a way you can get active skills earlier in the game by just getting active skill first, stats boost later. but yeah the cost should be reasonably high to balance thing out between choosing stat boost and active, passive skills bonus.
Ahhhh I see what you mean.
Have blank boots and you upgrade them to "Boots of Strenthening" for example.
Not a bad idea but i think it works out the same. If anything it might be more confusing with people seeing blank items in the shop.
The only way that'd work intuitively is if you started out with blank helm/boots/gloves/etc in your inventory, with no shop for them, and you go right to the "blacksmith". But the issue i'd have there is that i couldn't pick 2 boots, or 2 breastplates. I personal want there to be some stacking.Otherwise people would be like "why do the items in shop have no stats??" if you could pick two boots there.(two boots of a different type, of course.)
Ah, please let the Artifacts be something special. At least they're artifacts!
Let them be good but expensive. They shall have the potential to turn the tables, support your domination or just give some cool additional gimmick. Like the -right now overpowered- Teleporting-Wand (posted something to this item in another thread).
Upgrading them wouldnt fit them, imho.
Also stacking is one thing. The most things should be able to stack like: Dmg, attack speed, move speed, crit chance, crit damage, mana/hp (+regen)
But also stuff that shouldnt stack like: reducing cooldowns (only Abrahams right now, but shouldnt stack its just to strong), dodge, chance on hit to activate something (exp. Lightning strike), also the % of lifesteal shouldnt stack.
An Aura + Item ok, but i dont like to see Rnd-DPS hero with 6x the lifesteal ring or stupid things like that. Maybe to keep it "real", you only can have 1 breastplate, 1 helmet, 1 boots, 1 gloves, 2 rings if you want and the additional cons + artifacts.
So long,
Aspartem
Yeah my idea is for that you can only have 1 type of item for each helm, breatplate, boot, ring and guantlet. This is for RPG sake!! Try visualize your Demigod wearing two different type of shoes!! And for another RPG sake, you can keep the artifact, but that is to "imbue" the artifact into your equipment so it have special ability.(an RPG setting for Active, Passive skills upgrade) LOL
Oh yeah they'll be more expensive, but I'm saying still have an upgrade path.. It would give more options for activatable abilities.
But i guess not having them upgradable is fine too.
And Abrahams isnt' the only thing that stats. There is an rob too with -25%. If you get both it's -50%.I think EVERYTHING should stack because then you have a question of "does this stack or not?" It's easier to answere "everything stacks" not a list of what does and doesn'tIt's more than abrahams should be 15%, and the orb 20%, so you can only get 35% with both or something. And life steal needs to not be overpowered like in DotA (I dont think it currently is, just saying.)
And you wouldn't be able to get 6x lifesteal ring because you can only have 1 of each item. There might be two, MAYBE 3, lifesteel items across the board.
For the record i think using 2 boots is fine.. or 2 breastplates. I don't think gameplay should be hindered because "lol wut i can put 2 armurs on mah ruk?"
And Zeneroth, I think it's important to have the tree how i described it. There is the whole "do I want to buff this one (set of) stat(s) on this one item, because those are the stats i want the most? But I don't want the "bonus stat" at the end of that line as much, so should i choose to go for stats upgrading i dont want as much in order to get the "bonus stat" i want?". You can only use one of the same item, so you can't get 2 of them to get the stat upgrades you want and bonus stat you want all the time. It makes you make more decisions, and it will help with balancing out the items with balancing out stat upgrades vs. the bonus stats.You only have 3 upgrades to choose from on every item.I think that's a very good dynamic.
If you think you should only wear 1 helm, 1 breastplate, 1 boots, 1 gloves, then instead of selling those items in the shop, the shop should sell "crystals" that have all the stats, and you put that crystal in ANY item you want. So you have "of Strenthening" which gives 15% ias and 150 armor, and you can boot that in boots to make "boots of strenthening" or a helm to make "helm of strengtehning" in which case you have 15% ias and 150 armor helm.
That way you can still get all the items you want..
I do like this rather alot. Not much to say other than I support this idea.
Then they should remove the -% Cooldown , or reduce it to one item, and make all items "unique" so you cant wear two times the same item. Or something like that. If everything stack, you cant do something powerful unless for a huge ridicoulus price so you can only afford one in a normal lasting game.
I just dont like, it doesnt feel well for me. I can live with 2 Helms or 2 Plates etc. but no Itemstacking. With your idea itemstocking would be reduced anyway, because you have to upgrade it first etc. etc.
Nontheless.. Thumbs up for your idea
you CANT wear 2 of the same item at the same time.There is two DIFFERENT ones with -%cooldown.
15+20% wouldn't be bad.
All items need to be balanced around stacking. If some things stack, and others don't, it makes it confusing for new players.
Stats like cooldowns, run speed and attack speed don't need to stack linearly. I could be more like 1/(1+%) that way an increase of 100% would only cut cooldowns in half and 200% to 1/3. It would create diminishing returns on that stat and prevent you from getting it to near 0.
25%+25% is actually 43% not 50%.
It does 25%, so 10 becomes 7.5, then 25% of 7.5 which is 5.625
20%+15% would be to going to 6.8. 32% not 35%
Yes, i know that little about maths
And..doh.. i forgot about the "no double items"-Rule. Well.. then i'd could be ok, still 2 reducing items are to strong.
5.6 Cd for a 5 Cd stun is OP, i think we dont have to discuss about that. But that would be another topic about how pewpew Rook is
Stacking is ok, just make the items with strong abilities unique, so only one exist => no stacking of good items.. tata!
So long, Aspartem
This post is gold, and is way, way better than item recipes (while still accomplishing the same thing of having items you buy early in the game "scale" as you level).
I approve of this idea.
This is a problem with the skills cooldown and it's stun, not the items really.
But yes, 2 -25% items is too much. I think it should be a -15% and a -20%.
This build isn't about balance.
This plan is win. I think the system is very easy to understand, and at the same time allows for a huge amount of gameplay diversity.
I'm not sure what to think about having two boots on at the same time. I guess, as long as they are different boots and not the exact same thing, it shouldn't be a big problem. They already plan to turn the "shopping mall" by your stronghold into one building, and after this the differences between boots and rings will become less noticable.
This plan also goes toward having the same Demigod play different ways. Using items, you could either have a Rook tank people while dealing tons of damage per hit, or turn him into an unusually fast walking castle that charges people and hammer-slams them. You could have a hit-and-run Regulus that moves quickly and has a high HP regen, or you could build him up to hold ground with a rapid fire crossbow and a cooldown reduction for Angelic Fury. This hypothetical diversity is gained entirely from items, while using just the skills we have right now.
Not having 2 of the exact same item is already in.
The reason i'm against making it so you can only have one pair of boots period is that it doesn't allow for enough choice. What if I don't like any of the helms?(as a regulas, i don't!) or any of the rings?(also, usually don't.) Maybe my build requires 3 boots and 2 breastplates!
If that's done it'd have to be made so every item is changed into some crystal thing that you socket or enchant into your items, like i mentioned above.. So you could still have access to all the same items
I'll have to agree with inno's last post that you should be able to select your 5 items through any combination of the shops. Anyways with the stacking thing it would be best if 25% aspd + 25% aspd = 50% aspd. The math would be easier and simpler to understand. Just balance items so they can stack that way. -25% cooldown on two items is too much so simply lower them both by 10% or something.
Does anyone know how it works right now? Do they simply add the percents and take it off the base value, or do they take one and then the other? If they take one and then the other, if you have one that's larger, which one is taken first? (I think simply adding them eases the confusion, I'm just curious how it works right now.)
Abraham's Helm, or whatever its called, is rather cheap. However, iirc, the other -25% Cooldown item is a very expensive artifact that is difficult to get. The biggest problem that comes up as a result of these right now is stun-locking players. They plan to nerf stuns in some way, shape, or form as the betas progress, so the main problem with a huge cooldown reduction will be gone. Coupled with the extremely high cost of the artifact one, I don't think large decreases are really necessary. Maybe cut down the Abraham's Helm by 5-10% while leaving the other at 25%? If potential stun locks are removed, then I don't really see the problem with a potentially large cooldown decrease for a very high cost. The Rook can currently hit for over 1.5k on his basic attack at high levels with expensive items. Shouldn't the Torchbearer and other mage-type Demigods be able to spam powerful spells at high levels with expensive items?
I believe +25% and =25% attack speed is 43.75% more attack speed, but i'm not 100% sure.
I think that's the right way to stack though, personally. The numbers one at a time.
Normaly its cal
Normally its calculated like that.. in any game with items i know at least. Because each item is its own instance in the calculation like: Basespeed*Item1*Item2 and so on.. That's math usally works with percents. 25% + 25% = 50% would mean they use .. dont know if its the right word on english - percentpoints (Prozentpunkte in german doh.). But thats unusual.
About Abrahams: Just make the helm more expensive, then its ok. Right now that helmet is just ridicoulus chep. Also the the effect should be reduced to 20%. I also agree, that we should be able to stack 2-3 boots and or 2-3 breatplates if we wish. If we cut that out just for "it has to be realistic"-sake, we sacrifice a lot of depth in the item-builds for each hero. Just remove alot of diversity of some Demi's.
the math would have to be basespeed *(item1+item2+item3)
er actually 2 25% IAS items is 56.25% increase I think
the +40% and +50% items are +110% attack speed, not +90%.
I like this idea a lot. Is having a tree necessary though? Why not let people add one of each power-up at each price point? Or are there particular cheesy combos that need to be prevented?
For balancing reasons.. yes. Plus it's simpler this way for the user.
And you'd get rid of having to sometimes choose between a path you don't really want in order to get the "bonus stat" at the end of the line.
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