How many words do I need to have this in Demigod, and it not have any silly recipes?
Picture = thousand words.
There should be a max of like "3 points" or whatever to use for upgrades, PER ITEM. So.. you can only reach 1 of the final paths. At least that's what I think.. otherwise the prices would need to go up after each point you spend, or something..
If an item has more than 2 stats then the different ones would be grouped together in either path.If an item only has 1 stat then one path would upgrade that, the other would add a new one.(or just all items should have a minimum of 2 stats.)
Another good point about this is that it'd reduce clutter in the shop. About 40% or so of the items in the shop are basically slight variation sof each other, or upgrades of each other. It would stream line things a lot. =] More accesibility = great.
Rolling over Items would bring up something like this:
That actually looks pretty cool. I'd go further to say that only one of the the final tier abilities can be bought for armor (only 10% chance on hit or only 15% to double strike or only +10% to all triggered skills/abilities). It would up the RPG + Strat ante a tad.
Yeah i just added that while you where posting. Max of 3 upgrades. Each item would look similar, just different bonuses on each path.
Also, one upgrade could give 2 different bonuses.
I had to go eat but wanted to put it up there.
how do you do tis
nice idea
Tamba likes
Photoshop.
You photoshopped that in and then scrawled completely illegible text instead of using the text tool? Why?!
This is an awesome idea! It does away with the difficult-for-new-players item recipe system in DotA without giving up the functionality of it! Great idea!
because i thought it'd be funny.
Notice i numbered them and wrote in the post underneith Mr. Meanyface.
Pretty cool idea actually.
that looks sick they should really implement that for most or all items cept consumables of course
I was thinking for every single item except consumables (but some of the current items would be removed, maybe a few new ones added)
Q. Not to be a downer (nice pic btw), but is this system really doing anything besides letting you recycle your earlier purchases? If all the ingredients and upgrades can be purchased with just money, than ultimately the final item costs nothing but the sum of the ingredients. Yes, you can choose upgrade paths, but really you're just making a larger variety of items (even if some of the items are just variations on a single item). It's when you start including unpurchasable factors (time, dropped rare items, enemy kills, etc) that it becomes a meaningful game mechanic.
No, it lets you slowly customize an item over time to your specifications. It allows you to go to the intermediary stage you want when you want. It could be accomplished with about 700 items total, but that would be inane. If we add unpurchaseable factors, that adds another completely arbitrary layer of complexity to the whole thing and pervert strategy into knowing the whole goddamn upgrade tree for everything instead of making good decisions on the fly. If various kills made some upgrades cheaper, sure, but if you need unpurchaseables, it'll be almost as inane as recipies, becuase it'll require a similar level of studying. I study for calculus. I DO NOT study for video games. If something that needs over ten minutes of study to be passable at, I will go apeshit.
Innociv, excellent job getting the right way to do items into such a good post. Karma for you!
ne thing is does, is like currectly you have..
+15% IAS, +150 armor boots+50% ias +75 armor boots.+40% ias, +350 armor boots.Can basically get the same thing by having upgrades for strengthening boots. That's just one example. There are the rings that arebasically the same, armor, helms.
It will REMOVE items from the actual shops. Like each shop would just have 3-5 items probably, instead of around 5-8.
And while this gives more items (1 item turns into 3 if you just go by highest level, 8 if you count all levels) it makes them much simpler.
Tyo actually said they have 150 items or something on the drawing board to pick from and narrow down form. But we have about 50 in the game.(But 13 are consumables.. so 37.)
If there was 4 of each artifacts/helms/rings/breastplates/gloves/boots that'd be 24. If they each had 3 end paths, that's 72.
You'd have the variaty of twice as many items in the game than we have now, but it'd be very intuitive, actually having less items to go through in the shops.
The only problem with the system is that many items are already (basically) upgrades of an older item. Some items would need to be removed or revamped.
Yes, I said some items would be removed.I don't consider that to be a problem though myself.Unbreakable Boots = Strengthening boots with both IAS upgrades.Boots of Mayhem = Strengthening boots with 1 IAS upgrade, 1 Armor upgrade.
And i couldn't edit my last psot.. i was going to cotninue to reply that I don' t see why more variaty is a problem? Filling up the shop with tons of items would be a problem.And Items you can only get from drops for combines? I didn't know such a thing would exsist.. I dont' think so.Regardless, if they DO add dropped special items (not saying they should) those could simply be upgradable too.
In DotA all the items are purchased with money, but requires you to waste time and have to ask in chat to find them if you're new to the game is very frustrating. All the items in DotA cost money to upgrade too.
I say just start out with one item of each kind, i.e. basic boots, basic gloves, basic helms, and upgrade in the forge from there.
So there's one shop at base with the lowest tier of items. Next to that shop, there's the upgrade center.
I don't know about that. You'd need to many branches then.
I stick with my original idea.
To me, as proposed, Innociv's system seems to involve more than a little studying itself. While the concept is certainly simple, there really aren't that many different attributes that can be raised. Not in comparison to the number of upgrade paths, anyway. Sooner or later, two different paths (on entirely different categories of items) are going to be similar. Footwear and boots might both have armour upgrade paths, for example.
At this point, you're not only forced to decide which upgrade paths you want, you also have to decide which armour item to get that path with. Should you get your armour+ through boots or breastplate? Energy recharge+ through ring or helmet? Which item gives a bigger boost? Which is more affordable? What about oddball paths that give powerups that aren't readily apparent from the initial stats (i.e the middle path in your picture). That's more than a little studying in itself, I'd say.
I'm all for simplifying the item system, and the idea of upgrading IS more intuitive than going over each items' stats and trying to find the "right" item for your budget at the moment. And the present system is probably only going to get worse when more options are made available. I just think this proposed system has the potential to be just as complex.
Is there any merit to having just a single upgrade path for each item? Where each level simply involves a multiplier being used for the item's base stats? i.e. If the base item gives 100 armour and 10% attack speed, each subsequent level simply doubles the previous level's stats? Another similar item might give 200 base armour, but only 5% attack speed. Since the level increases are always proportionate, the player could quickly prioritize his attributes by the item's base stats, without having to waste time looking at the upgrade paths. And you could still remove a few items, since one item could cover both low and high levels.
Just a few thoughts on the matter.
There's a difference between finicky min/maxing which can be picked up from experience and only gives a small advantage, and needing a recipie which you need to know the ingredients for or you're stuck with an inventory full of bottom level items. One way is significantly more forgiving to new players than the other. I think that this system will be considerably less complex because you can take any item and have a very good idea what the upgrade path will be after about two games. The thing about progressive upgrade paths is that it allows the complexity to be processed gradually.
Mehve, 1 upgrade could give more than 1 attribute.
I just used an example on an item that only has two.Like say you have the rings.
Ring of Fortune - $2500 Health: +210 Health Regen: +0.42/sec Attack Speed: +10.5% Armor: +105 Energy: +300 Energy Regen: +25%
Ring of the Ancients - $5200 Health: +345 Health Regen: +0.69/sec Attack Speed: +17.25% Armor: +175 Energy: +575 Energy Regen: +40%
All Father's Ring - $16200 Health: +900 Health Regen: +1.8/sec Attack Speed: +45% Armor: +450 Energy: +1500 Energy Regen: +100%
You would start with just the first one. One path would upgrade, health and health regen and armor maybe, and maybe the other energy, energy regen, and attack speed.Do first level of both, and middle path at the bottom would be like the all-father ring. The left and right end path something different.
There does not need to be, and there SHOULD NOT be a bunch of branches, one for each attribute. You'd choose the group of attribute buffs you want the most.
Also, the possible upgrades could be shown when you hover over the item in the shop. I've kept it simple with the few paths.And you could get +armor from BOTH the breast plate and the boots..And while you could go both the armor path on boots and breast plate, the bonus at the very end would be different.So whether you choose the boots or breastplate for armor would be based on the other base stat(like maybe the breast plate gives health and health regen, vs the attack speed of boots.) and the last upgrade you get from following a path.
I original thought that just a simple lvl 2, lvl 3 upgrading of items that'd boost all stats kinda like you mentioned in the end of your post(so ring of fortune would become ring of the ancients, would become all father's ring). But I think this would be much better as 72 items could be made out of 24, instead of 24 better items made out of 24 weaker ones.
When you hover over the shop you could get something simple like.. (photoshopping, brb)
Ok, but for me it doesnt make a big difference to recepies. Just a little bit easier, because there are no need for ingridients. Still, it would be harder for newbies but i would give more depth to the higher level gameplay.
Could be also achieved by a huge load of items in the shops.. but, i like the proposed idea more.
Hm, but if they implement that, there is a big need for a shortcut for the character screen Or even add an inventory-only screen.
\
Simple, yes?
It wouldn't be much harder for newbies than a bloated item store, and compared to recipies it's much easier to deal with because you don't get devastated because you didn't memorize a list of items. I think it's the best idea because it keeps it relatively simple and quite easy to understand for the newbies, but makes it much deeper for veteran players.
Ugh.. wouldn't let me edit. This is so annoying.
Anyways, after someone uses the blacksmith once on an item it'd become instantly recognizable what the UP arrow is besides the stats(^1 is upgraded by the first upgrade, ^2 is upgraded by the second upgrade at blacksmith thing.) And the paths it'd become instantly recognizable that getting 2 of up 1 is path1, upgrading lvl 1 of both is path 2, and upgrading both of the 2nd is path 3.
IMO that's more intuitive than having tons of items, and much more than recipes.
REALLY this is turning 1 item into 8. so 24 items is 192. I just said 72 because there is 72 if you count just the end path on 24 items. But imagine 192 items in the shop. That wouldn't be good
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