Question about the new "Entrenchment" expansion pack? Perhaps we can get them answered here!
I agree, but I guess it's still not clear to me whether there will be prerequisites or not to the others. Many xpacks require other xpacks to play...
Hopefully in multiplayer it will be obvious what xpacks players have so if someone wants to play with a certain pack they can do so. In a lot of ways, setting up multiplayer for miro-xpacks will be a lot like setting up a regular game, just with some options people can't choose without the expansion(s). Hopefully you can force an xpack game, though, and not have it just downgrade everyone. So, if you have a 10 player game and 9 have all three xpacks and 1 person doesn't have any, it won't let that person join the game, if that's how you have it setup. This would make creating/joining more complicated, but necessary, since it will change the game considerably.
Looking at Brad's PR release, he talks about how gamers will be able to pick and choose. Sounds like they should be independent of each other.
Well, that's where we disagree. I don't see the tiny amount of announced content as equal to one third of the content of a quality $30 expansion. This is, obviously, a matter of opinion. Compare it to a very good recent expansion--Civ 4's Beyond the Sword. For $30 you got new units, new buildings, new civs, new leaders, new wonders, major new gameplay concepts (corporations, the Apostolic Palace), new scenarios and mods. Although unpublicized, you even got all the additions (except the scenarios) of the earlier Warlords expansion (admittedly, that was a lackluster expansion at best, and three Entrenchments might come close to equaling its content). Similarly, IMO the recent In Nomine expansion for EU III (for ($20 BTW) provides far more than three times the content of Entrenchment. My criticism of Entrenchment is not that you have to pay for new content (contrary to the strawman arguments asserted by the Ayn Rand fanboy brigade) but that Entrenchment represents a bad value. Simply, I don't think the announced content is worth $10. YMMV.
have the actually announced all of the content coming out? Im actually curious if theyll make this a bit more moddable. There are several mod options that weve asked for from the beginning.
Well like I mentioned either in this thread or another, I think they just outlined the "big" stuff. I suspect the micro packs will have a bunch of "smaller" stuff, too. I don't know about moddability tweaks, but I wouldn't expect anything major, beyond loosening some current hardcodes (some of which they'll be doing for 1.1 already)
if you ask me. this is no better than EA charging for a demo. if stardock wants to charge for a update, 10 dollars at that, per update, where most expansions cost about 20-25 dollars, with three they would make 30 dollars. so if you look at it like i do all game companies are becoming the same, greedy, self obsessed, and overdoing with all their games.
On the devil's advocate side.. all companies are about making money. Free stuff is great. But developers don't make money on free stuff, they spend it. Consider that Ironclad has one and only one product to provide all their revenue. Just one. It not only had to pay maintenance costs and salaries for the half a year since release, but it had to pay off a couple years' worth of maintenance and salaries during its development. They can't keep floating on Sins sales alone for 1, 2 years after its release. As great as it would be for us to get free stuff, would you rather get this free at the risk of Ironclad having to close up shop because they couldn't make ends meet, or would you rather pay $10 and help make sure we get a Sins 2?
There's a difference between multibillion profit megacorporations like EA, and small independent developers who actually do have to worry about finances.
But if you don't understand that, of course all companies only care about milking the crowd for extra cash to stuff their pockets.
When will we see a campaign?
There's so much to work with for a campaign.
On paper, GalCiv II: Dark Avatar was a $30 expansion pack that gave players asteroid fields, unique planet environments, and espionage. Doesn't sound like much when you describe it like that.
You'd be hard pressed to find a GalCiv II player who didn't think Dark Avatar was a good deal.
I have to ask, who here is really being greedy? The people who are working very very hard on something really cool and selling it for about the price of a meal or the people who demand indefinite labor for free? Ironclad has already released nearly a gigabyte of free extra content. Talk about making the case of not giving anything away in the future if it's not appreciated.
And someone who doesn't want to buy one of the mini expansions can always wait until there's a compilation that will be sold like a traditional expansion pack.
Not in this micro expansion, unknown about the future ones though.
Craig and Frogboy, You guys must have tough skins to want to be game developers. Sins has created a new genre in computer gaming and your support after the sale is nothing short of revolutionary. You have set a high mark for other game developers. You have no need to defend yourselves or be concerned about the feedback from 2 or 3 players. They have received tremendous value for what they have paid.
I read things in this forum sometimes I just have to respond to since they are so outrageous. I try to keep in mind that this is an rts game so it will sometimes attract some younger and more naive crowd that have no idea what they are talking about. There are games that may provide some additional content after the initial sale for free, but it is only worth what you are paying for.
Thank you for the free updates and I will purchase each of your expansion sets as they become available, as will likely most Sins fans. Don't let a few children dampen your enthusiasm, continue to excel at developing this game, the game and your efforts will stand the test of time. Your body of work speaks for you.
You have really created something special which is difficult to do these days.
oh, being able to put a starbase around a sun would really be cool, maybe if you control all lanes leading to it? This would allow for combat around the sun's gravity wells.
I'd still like to hear more about the online multiplayer aspects of this and what effect it would have, if any.
It won't have much affect in online gaming. If all players in a given game have an expansion, then the items are enabled. Otherwise, they're not.
Thanks for comments like this guys.
I think a lot of the complaints are coming from not knowing what the full details of the microexpansions are. The press release just focused on some of the main changes with very little detail - not everything. If anything, I would say the value of Entrenchment is greater than 1/3 of a typical expansion. Heck, I'd say Starbases alone plus the gameplay ramifications associated with them is pretty darn significant. It's like Frogboy said above w/r to the GalCiv expansion - listing a few things like that just doesn't sound impressive until you dig into the details.
So to answer the question above: yes you will be able to place Starbases around stars (and other places you wouldn't have normally been able to build). See, even that fact alone is going to dramatically change how Sins is played (and for the better).
I can't speak for everyone, but I'll buy it. Long live Ironclad and Stardock, some of the best software companies of all time. They don't dish out crap like Microsoft has done (lately), they aren't forcing garbage and "anti-piracy" loaded software down our throughts (spelling is not my forte) like EA, and, quite frankely, they diserve an applause for making such awesome stuff and being a wonderful example to the rest of the gaming world.
If you want to BS them, why don't you try doing what they do for a living.
Dear Sins Devs,
Please add my voice to those expressing appreciation, excitement and enthusiasm for the announcement of Entrenchment, and in particular the format of three micro-expansions.
I am far from a "fanboi", but have enjoyed playing Sins in what little time off I get from work (I work 60+ hours most weeks). It's not the only game I play, but due to its replayability and (as I recently discovered) friendly (for the most part) online community.
I can't guarantee that I will buy the expansion sight unseen, but will probably wait for it to come out and hear other people's reactions, determine how it changes the game and if I would derive more enjoyment from it and my $10 would be well spent.
From the quality of the free updates, I expect that I will end up purchasing it, and the format the updates will be released in makes it even more appealling than having to wait many years and drop more cash on it at one time.
Working in management for a major retailer I understand a small piece of the hassle it would be to bring these mini-expansions to retail and think it a wise move (in many ways) for it to be released online only first. I eagerly await the further details, news and player reviews of Entrenchment.
my only question is, say i buy all 3, which will roughly equal the big one comming out. do i still get the option of getting the big one on disk format for the typical 5$ or do i have to buy that one as well?ps you guys made an awesome game, and have allways been a great company with great customer support. which imo speaks greatly for your company and has greatly earned my trust.
Sold.
The same thing happens with most expacks and sequels that relese part information, people have thier pet hates etc and want them fixed and if they don't see the fix/improvement imediatly they complain (even if the fix is in game and great but they just havn't seen it yet). ArmaII has many people like this.
*Hopes for high moddability for new stuff*
I follow your train of thought, although I might temper that with an acknowledgement of what a new element means in a 'skirmish' game like Sins. Also bear in mind Ironclad announced not only these three expansions, but a major expansion *plus* a full sequel, if I`m not mistaken. Thats a lot of work and salaries.
I`ll certainly disagree with thee given what we know. In even the least event however I admit I am glad I can play a role in supporting the kind of developer Ironclad is (with nods to their publisher... stay small...): I know I`ll enjoy what has been announced. $10 is a small gamble.
I like what here about the expansions ( able to place star base at sun and other places you have not been able to up to now ) yep i want pre ordering now keep up the great work stardock.
Wow just wow, I think some people who are complaining lack very basic skills such as the ability to read and do math. 9.99 * 3 = 29.97 so the micro expansions will cost less or more depending. unless they reduce the price for buying all three together. It says entrenchement will be the expansion that adds new defenses. All three expansion are not for defense. One will add New diplomatic features and the other will add new ships and technologies. Oh before I forgot entrenchment includes more than starbases just read the announcement. You don't have to buy it online you can wait and buy all 3 retial. I think thats all the simple questions answered so we shouldn't hear anymore that have been answered already in the announcement.
~end rant
Personnally i like the idea of these micro expansion and the way they activate if someone has them or not. That way you can get the expansion you want and don't get the one you don't like. Since I like all of them i'll be getting them all
I mean whats there to complain about MINEFIELDS PEOPLE MINEFIELDS. do you know how long i wanted this don't mess this up for me.
great job IC and SD I never doubted yah.
Three mini expansions means 8 combinations of player bases, each with varying functionality online.
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