Hooray for IC listening to the community!

Well, looks like we got an answer. However, they better also make the 1.1 patch compatible with mods, otherwise the increased limits wont matter because the mods will not work.

It is pretty obvious the hardcode limits need to go, or at least not be so unforgiving. However doing this will require a re-write of the game code.

Speaking as a veteran Homeworld modder to the rest of the community. What you can do with Sins is very similar to what we did with Homeworld 10 years ago. Instead of adding all new content on top of the existing vanilla sins content, You need to REPLACE the existing sins content on a one for one basis. Just as we did with the Homeworld content. Add your modded ship then wipe out all trace of the original sins ship it was intended to replace. Add your ability, then wipe out the original unmodded version. This is what you have to do to make it work right now. Especially if there are limits to how many entity's and/or lines in the scripts. I have not fully discovered what limits there are, but the list on the OP will help many modders find workarounds to their problems. Modding is all about finding a way to make your ideas work despite any hardcoded limits. We did it with Homeworld. I am doing it now with Sins, and if i can do it with little to no scripting knowledge. Then You can do it.

I am in full support of any hardcode limits being eased, or eliminated, but consider the work it would require to do so. IC is not exactly a large gaming company just as Relic wasnt during the time of homeworld. So a re-work of the existing game engine is out of the question. We will have to live with what we have, and find a way to make your ideas, and imagination work with the existing engine as best as you possibly can.

If there is to be an expansion then at least some re-write of the game code will be in order to accommodate the new content. Here is where IC can ease up on some of our biggest hardcode restrictions.

I would like to see more than one colonizable body in a single gravity well (true solar systems). I would like to see phase lanes be able to be modded out completely, and antimatter be used to limit ships jump range. I would like to see ships, and structures that can use any weapon, buff/debuff, ability, etc, etc. I would like better control of a ships firing arc.

I have seen 18 nulls flagged as weapon-0 work. So i am confused about these null limits. Exactly how many nulls can a mesh have? How many can be marked as a weapon, ability, bomb, nav light, etc, etc.?

The -cl -da layer flip flop is irrelevant, and easily fixed with a simple copy, and paste of channels.

1.1 will break any 1.05 mods. I saw this comming once the patch was announced. Once the reference files are released then mods can be fixed.

On another note.. Do we really NEED every damn entity file in the game data folder for a mod to work?? Cant we use that folder as an override like the mesh and texture folders where only the modded files are seen?

Way back shortly after launch, psugar explained why it has to work this way, but I wouldn't be able to recount it now

That wouldn't make it any faster, probably slower if anything. The main reason to have so many seperate files is for human understanding (other wise we would still be programing FORTRAN style). Once the data is loaded the various files are probably no longer used, not to mention text is not exactly "large footprint".


The reason why the new update stops mods working btw is because file formats changed, the explosions file was completly redone for example. The biggest thing is the abilitys all have new data in them. The parser just gives you tons of errors if you try and run it (with error reporting on). Once those changes are made and everything is compatable with the new format it would work fine.

If memmory serves its the flair points.

Hey peeps, just a bit more info.

1) For those of you confused about the texture channel switching, it wasn't completely arbitrary.  The channel switching bought us a little more free memory, and improved the visuals for the average user.

2) GalaxyScenarioDef file has no limits that I'm aware of.  There certainly isn't a KB limit.  The number of items and planet types should be theoretically infinite.  It's much easier to have no limits in this area because speed/memory/ui concerns are less of an issue.

3) There is no limit on the size of the string file to my knowledge.

4) We will be increasing the maximum number of sounds so you don't have to start axing existing ones to add new ones.

Cheers

I'm not going to guess on increasing the number of craft allowed per ship, but if you look on the first page of this thread where I pasted a tidbit that psugar previously posted, adding new research modifiers would require a good bit of resources, testing, patching so isn't at all likely to happen.

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!!!!! NEW SOUNDS!!!!



YES!!!!!!! I hear Star Control sounds coming.....

DANMAN

psugar, you are my hero.

Hey, what about this:

[23:58:29] randomShipCount exceeds the maximum allowed. 6 requested but only 5 allowed. If a larger number is needed bug a programmer!

Well to be honest, Homeworld 2 has almost no limits, exept a max limit of races (7-8 if you scram the "random race button").

IMO SoTSE would be really a greate joke if such game, that is annouced by developers as modding friendly, would be so chained by lots of limits that make TC mods a horror

Obligatory rant on hardcodes.