EU to Ban Pirates from the Internet?

kryo

Join Date 05/2003

+458

EU to Ban Pirates from the Internet?

Some of you may be aware of the "three strikes" plan recently approved in France, where suspected copyright infringers are liable to be banned from the internet for up to a year if they persist after two warnings, and failed efforts to push similar laws across the entire EU a few months back.

Not content to be rebuffed, proponents of the laws have put them back on the table in Brussels, where they were set to be voted on yesterday. No news seems to be available online yet about how it went (any Europeans visitors have details on that?).

Is banning pirates from the internet going too far, or is it justified? It seems that no amount of DRM ever deters them for long, so perhaps cutting them off from their sources entirely would be the solution to large-scale piracy. Or maybe it just might drive them underground, and result in innocent users being banned on suspicions only. What do you guys think? Could this possibly work, or will it only make matters worse?

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Actually they can be pirated by On hardrive+iso+custom firm wire+?????= Win!

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I just have one question: if pirates are banned from the internet, what will become of Sir Starkers?

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Island Dog

Join Date 06/2003

+1048

OK, this thread needs time to cool off. The personal attacks need to stop now. I will open the thread again when we feel a mature discussion can be held.

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So don't bet on it saving you money - Theft diminishes supply and demand in a balanced fashion both the supply and the demand are reduced, and the change in price is going to depend on the elasticity of the market

Did you learn all that from a state school econ class?

Software piracy does not reduce supply, just demand. Prices should go down, huh? No. Here's what really happens: Companies stop making the games people love and enjoy. Games cost a lot to make. The price that goes into making one comes from creative talent invested. Whose going to make a lunch and then give it away?

One more thing. Pirates, stop ruining our creative culture you diseased bastards. Don't know if a game is going to be good without trying it? Ask a friend. Can't afford it? America is a disgustingly rich country, and I don't believe you. You just don't want to make a sacrifice.

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Nobody likes sacrifices and who wants to buy a game that has a price tag of 70-100 bucks.

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Dark Knight - we are debating a "Change in the Law". It is therefore not, by definition, "The Law".

Second of all - you obviously don't actually *know* "The Law". Or you would know that the law distinguishes between a "Threat on someone's Life" and an obvious attempt at humor. The question is would a "Reasonable Man" feel threatened by a person saying they were going to beat them about the head and shoulders with a wiffle bat.

You are welcome to argue that a reasonable man would - take it to the FBI, I'll happily donate my time. I wanna see it - actually, I wanna tape it, for later edification. I mean really - Simultaneously talking about how big and bad you are cuz you're a weightlifter *and* how you have a gun to protect yourself against those random wifflebat attacks?

I suppose I could be justifiably accused of ad hominem attacks if I asked just how many wifflebat fatalities there have been in your parent's basement - {G}.

It is not however an ad hominem attack to say you're an ignorant twit - Get *OVER* yourself.

Because you've gone to such enormous lengths to establish that - at this point it's simply a fact.

Jonnan

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1840

A few hours have passed. Those who have been spoken to...and temporarily 'removed' due to unacceptable behaviour are now cooling their heels in reflection.

The thread's re-opened...

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1840

Breaking rules...and being removed from net access...as the EU wants to do is quaintly no different to what site Administrators do on a 'more local' level.

Piracy is not a legal enterprise...so will invoke some form of punishment if/when convicted.

The most effective punishment [other than capital] is either crippling financial, or physical access/capability, or both.

Provided ONLY the guilty are punished...and there's no colateral damage then who really gives a rat's arse?...

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WIllythemailboy

Join Date 03/2006

+70

A few hours have passed. Those who have been spoken to...and temporarily 'removed' due to unacceptable behaviour are now cooling their heels in reflection.
The thread's re-opened...

Can we get an explination as to why there were three posts while the topic was "closed", then posting was not an option for some time after it was "opened"? Not that anyone needs more heckling from the peanut gallery, but if there's a "parting shot" window, I'd kinda like to know about it

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Can we get an explination as to why there were three posts while the topic was "closed",

People are slow typers or they found the Joe User backdoor.

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It's probably quantum, Willy.

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1840

Can we get an explination as to why there were three posts while the topic was "closed",

It can happen due to an individual's cache. If there's a particularly important reason that there be absolutely no 'late comments' they're deleted from the thread...

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My apologies - I started a posting from work (I have a job as a Turing Test), became sidetracked by those people that pay me (Shakes fist in air!) and when came back I finished, hit post, and became aware that I had accidentally violated the moderator cooling off period. I presume the same happened with the two prior to me.

So no, it was not intended as a 'parting shot', but I can understand why it might be perceived that way.

Jonnan

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Mumblefratz

Join Date 07/2006

+139

I have a job as a Turing Test

That's a joke right?

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That's a joke right?

If you don't know, I suppose I passed - {G}

Jonnan

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WIllythemailboy

Join Date 03/2006

+70

Huh. I guess I'm too used to the GameFaqs boards, where such loopholes don't exist. Of course, they have much tighter language and behaviour standards over there - the people in question here would be cooling off with a 10 day purgatory, if not banned outright.

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I feel it will be a big mistake for me to wade into this thread, but I would like to try and clear up one misunderstanding regardless.

Piracy (of the software/music/film downloading variety) is not theft. It's copyright infringement, which while still being a crime is a different one.

Theft, or stealing is the act of taking something such that the previous owner is deprived of its use. And the only way Internet piracy could fall into this definition is if you consider the money that might have changed hands for genuine product. I say might because it's reasonable, in my experience at least (and I believe there are independent studies to back this up too,) to consider that many people pirate that which they would not pay for at any price; you would have to prove that they would have paid had they not pirated for a theft conviction to reasonably stick, tricky even if true.

It's still wrong that people pirate, but industry attempts to paint it as theft are done so as to make the damage to their bottom line appear worse. Music piracy reached the levels it has not through an innate desire among a massive group of Internet users to rip off the music industry, but rather from a failure of music industry to correctly identify and exploit customer demand for a modern distribution system. I want to buy my music online, but will only do so when I can get it DRM free (and in MP3 form, sorry iTunes,) until then I generally choose to do without — but many others choose to punish the music industry. Big music is especially deserving of such punishment as it has for a long time put the screws to the creators, meaning only the biggest of big artists (or those with older contracts) make meaningful amounts of money off their album sales. Most get their best income from tours, and sales of other merchandising which can be dealt with by more reasonable distributors outside of what is best exemplified in the RIAA.

Jafo wrote:

Provided ONLY the guilty are punished...and there's no colateral damage then who really gives a rat's arse?...

Unfortunatly history (being the RIAA's litigation exploits in the USA) tells us this is unlikely.

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1840

I generally choose to do without — but many others choose to punish the music industry.

That is not a legal or legitimate 'choice' to be had.

Ferrari does not provide [for me] an affordable/acceptable product...so I shall punish the company by 'taking' what I would otherwise never pay for.

It's a pathetic argument...and touted every single time the issue of copyright/ownership/property rights/piracy/et al is raised.

The 'choice' is simple....either abide by whatever rules are in place....lobby to alter those rules if deemed 'unfair' or break said rules and suffer the consequences.

That's it. There IS nothing else....

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Ferrari does not provide [for me] an affordable/acceptable product...so I shall punish the company by 'taking' what I would otherwise never pay for.

But in this case you are taking a physical object, one that they cannot then sell. The choice I described is arguably much closer to an act of civil disobedience — an important tool in fighting perceived injustices of government or other similarly large organisations. Although I don't doubt for a second most prolific music downloaders don't do such acts from this angle.

What's your view on buying a game, but then using a no-cd crack such that you don't have to deal with often invasive copy-protection mechanisms?

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The laws I belive are a step in the right direction on internet usage.

Getting yourself caught and convicted of the same crime 3 times and then punished for it is nobody's fault but the individual's own.

The issue of privacy comes to mind for me concerning on how information is gathered and processed and by who.

One example is Blizzard who uses a "warden" program for World of Warcraft to police users and keep constant check on players in order to discourage cheating or piracy. It sounds great in theroy but then again in order to play the game you have a program that has unrestricted access to your personal PC at all times. It raises the question on what the program deems "suspicious" programs or information and what it reports back to blizzard.

Back on topic,
Goverments, and not just goverments, companies and parents acting with responsibility need to take control.

The internet is not a wild-western, free to do whatever you want, non political zone. The internet is just another medium for information exchange and entertainment not unlike books, radio, or television. All of which fall under a code of conduct and governing laws.

Its not an issue to be debated imo.

Stealing is wrong,

Piracy is stealing.

It looks self explanatory, thats my 2 cents.

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Well, the CEO of Stardock just bought a new Porshe 911 Turbo. So, the industry can't be hurting THAT badly...

But if piracy isn't stealing, then it should't be called piracy. It should be called .... taking someone else's ideas and not paying for them even though they cost something. Or TSEIANPFTETTCS for short.

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1840

Theft, or stealing is the act of taking something such that the previous owner is deprived of its use. And the only way Internet piracy could fall into this definition is if you consider the money that might have changed hands for genuine product. I say might because it's reasonable, in my experience at least (and I believe there are independent studies to back this up too,) to consider that many people pirate that which they would not pay for at any price; you would have to prove that they would have paid had they not pirated for a theft conviction to reasonably stick, tricky even if true.

OK....say you contact a plumber to install some taps...which he does....but you do not pay him.

Do we call that 'theft', 'fraud', 'breach of contract', or just plain 'being an arsehole'? ['you' may also never have intended to pay him at all].

Then....equating it with that downloaded 'content' you'd otherwise never actually BUY ....where's the difference?

Either way, a service/product has been obtained without appropriate payment/consent.

"might" doesn't enter the equation. The facts are self-evident....you have something you have no contractual/legal title to, which, when obtained legally results in a profit/income to the legal owner/vendor/tradesman.

This has already been tested and proven....years ago [about 20, as I recall]. The copyright 'thief' was sued for the value of lost profit to the copyright holder...in this case around $60,000 AUD....[it was an Architectural copyright]....

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1840

What's your view on buying a game, but then using a no-cd crack such that you don't have to deal with often invasive copy-protection mechanisms?

Not a problem...provided the no-CD is not a way to then have someone else make use of 'my' game purchase CD.

I have several no-CD cracks installed...but I also have the games themselves [no point otherwise]...their use is PURE CONVENIENCE and nothing to do with copyright violation or 'stolen' IP.

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1840

The choice I described is arguably much closer to an act of civil disobedience

'Civil Disobedience' is Jay-walking.

Taking something without due payment is theft.

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Mumblefratz

Join Date 07/2006

+139

If you don't know, I suppose I passed - {G}

I suppose you're right.

Regardless you've provided the one glimpse of humor in an otherwise totally boring and inane thread.

Thanks.

Now back to our regularly schedule program of who the heck cares.

By the way, currently it appears that Thoreau and Locke have squared off with Descartes waiting in the wings for rebuttal. Can anyone tell who's winning?

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