I see nothing wrong with holding people to standards. As the matter of fact, having no standards seems kind of rediculous to me. Let's face it folks, the standards around here have gotten way too liberal. So liberal there are none.

Each and every review of Windowblinds is the same... Great program, lots of crappy skins to choose from. That's the real world speaking, not any Master, not any beginner, nor sheep. It's an unbiased opinion which speaks very loudly. Perhaps some sort of standard could be useful around here.   

The GUIO has a standard that everything in a skin must be skinned. This isn't too much to ask. If a 1/2 ass skinned skin suits your needs, great for you but does it HAVE to be shared?

Perhaps it is time for someone to give all this some serious thought and perhaps make up some guidelines/ standards for what is an acceptable skin and what isn't. I didn't make a stink about a crappy skin. I made a stink about someone using someones elses work and taking credit for it. If you all think that is an elitist move then clearly any action taken by a Master is an elitist move around here. I got recoil recently for pointing out some mistakes in someones skin and the Author asked for testing to be done. You simply cannot win.   

For the record....Sometimes thing really don't go so well in private. As a little birdie whispered in my ear this morning, public executions can be effective.

Forgive my ignorance, but what is the GUIO?
Are you referring to the GUI Olympics?
I did a search on google and came up with "growing up is optional"   

FYI - On a more serious note... Public executions are not effective unless the effect you are trying to acheive is instilling fear in others. - That doesn't seem like fun to me.   

Why not?

Conversely if a 1/2 arsed skin does NOT suit your needs , great for you but must you deny others?

Typically that 'unbiased opinion' by reviewers re 'lots of crappy skins' is the confusion of 'quality' and 'personal taste'....aka if you don't like the style it MUST be crap.

Skinning is a lot bigger than one person's opinion....or one bunch of so called 'unbiased' reviewers' opinions.

It really is a lot about 'each to his own', just as any and ALL forms of 'artwork' are both diverse, intricate or naive...

Well said Jafo..  

Essorant's top Master Skinning tips:

- usable first, decorative second (no point having a beautiful but useless skin is there?)
- don't move the min/max/close buttons to somewhere strange
- 'highlight text' colour should be black!
- make your skin xp AND vista ready - don't go half way!
- we don't need another xp/vista/mac/your_OS_here clone - think of something original
- take your time
- respect people's opinions of your stuff - unless they are just being silly and unconstructive
- remember there is always someone better than you - learn from them, but don't just copy their designs
- orange and pink tartan is a bad choice of colour scheme - don't go mad, but don't limit your palette either
- learn modesty if it's not a skill you already have
- enjoy yourself!

I'm not really qualified to tell anyone how they should skin Windows. These are just tips for myself! (...and I kinda got the impression that this thread's intention was more about master skinners sharing skinning tips? It has become a debate.)

Tim.

Is that by personal choice or is he actually banned from responding to her threads...is that possible?

- What lawyer in his right mind would bother making any case about that, I just don't see it happening. A highlight technique is just that, a highlight technique. If I throw a football in the exact same way as Dan Marino or kick a soccer ball the same way as Pele, it's using their technique, are they going to sue me for it? That's a bit of a stretch in all of these cases. If people make a stink, it's usually because they're stinky themselves - and I can be guilty of that too.

Great, and you can choose not to download it.


Isn't VStyler's executive skin a vista type skin with wood grain effect? VS definitely has a passion for skinning as far as I can tell. Even if he collaborated with Stardock on that skin, he is a part of it. On top of that he created this vista type skin and made it available free to the skinning community even though it's a master quality skin. Aren't we allowed to have more than one passion in life? A passion for financial security, great relationships, the freedom to express ourselves using our given skill sets & abilities, the freedom to do what we want among many other passions?


Seriously dude, you have a control issue. We should just nuke everyone who doesn't jive with your view of the world! "Download whores" - do you hear yourself speak? They are only downloads, they have no value other than indicating how many times a skin has been downloaded. Is that all we do, skin for downloads? We can't just assume we skin because we like to skin and we like to share what we've done with others?! Tarred, feathered, neutered (neutered?! ...what am I, a cat or a dog?) Quick fix for the skinning for download#'s argument.... remove the download numbers from plain view, if you need to keep it, you can view only your download#'s, no one elses. I could handle that, can you? Would that solve the download whore argument? Maybe you don't realize it but that is a really harsh label you're putting on people. The word "whore" generally isn't a positive one.



The only negative energy that I have felt recently is from you unfortunately, and I say that it's unfortunate because you have the incredible title of "master" class skinner associated with your user account and you should represent this site and the skinning community in a more responsible manner than you currently do. I don't have any self esteem issues, and I would hope that my self-esteem is drastically effected by my skinning ability either - no one's self-esteem should be affected by that. A person's self-esteem is a reflection of the kind of person you are, it isn't based on your skinning abilities. If you feel the need to tear other people down, it could be a reflection of self-esteem issues you currently have.



You apologize but then you finish off by saying you were right. What are you apologizing for then? If you were right, you don't need to apologize - that would be logical in my point of view. I don't think anyone wants you to quit skinning, I certainly don't. There is room in my world for someone like you, it's unfortunate but I believe there isn't room in your world for skinners like myself & butch. If I could ask you to quit doing something it would be to stop bashing other skinners publicly and using hurtful comments, but I can't control you so you can continue doing this, in your point of view I'm sure you think it's a positive thing like public executions.



The whole system is functioning and has functioned for quite some time, I don't think that it's all out of order. Seriously, how is anyone cheating the system? Why do you focus so much on these download#'s? Should we just remove all of the non-quality skins and only allow high quality skinners to submit work to the site? Would that fix the system? Limit selection and only allow certain skins to be downloaded? If the desire to have talent is not enough when you don't have talent, should we just quit? Your advice is not simple and doesn't apply to everyone, everyone has a choice as to what advice they want to listen to and use. Reading your post, I seriously believe that you were hung over and possible still feeling the effects of your over-indulgence.

Truth be told, we can't change anyone directly. You can talk to them till your blue in the face, you can reason, use logic, have people support your point of view but you can't change anyone's mind that way and you can't change how they do things either. To change other people you have to first change yourself. It's the same thing in any relationship or friendship, be the best person you can be and this will hopefully draw out the best in other people. But don't preach change if you're not willing to show that you can do the same. It's the hardest lesson to learn.... and the easiest one.

You can definitely derive inspiration from a master's work, the skinning ability of the masters on this site is incredible, something to definitely aim for if that is your goal.   

To be a master is not my goal; to do the work of a master is. I just hope to have fun skinning, and do a good job while I'm at it.

I agree after this...

Rob, you twisted everything I said for the worst. Please stop butting in with your personal agenda.
If you had any clue how many people have messaged me supporting what I said, you would be silent.

I somehow think this thread has long strayed from its original purpose. Perhaps it is time to move on and just give in to the fact this type of discussion can never develop the way it should and is pointless.

Rob, I am sorry you got in the middle of something that really had nothing to do with you. I did make a comment directed at you but in a typical online fashion, it was not heard the way it was meant. In the midst of insulting someone else I insulted you and I am sorry for that. I live by the rule that you need to choose your battles. It was thought out and not reactionary. I chose to make a stink in this case because alot of people were thinking it but were hesitant to speak out. So, I apologize if I offended you.

I admit that I have a little too strong of an opinion when it comes to skinning. I never thought my way was the best way. I am just trying to get something changed where I saw nothing working in that direction. Sadly, nothing will become of this except alot of sour pusses and some hurt feelings.

I will say this Rob, ....things were different years ago. You are experiencing things from a different perspective than some of us that have been around awhile. My feet were held to the fire when I was starting out and yes, I feel slighted when standards are lowered after I went through all the hair pulling. In the end, I benefited from it immensely but apparantly it is making me an elitist for having a strong opinion and an unusually large sense of pride in everything that is skinning. I am closer to a mediocre skinner than the best so I do not think my shit doesn't stink. I see a need for a fix and I try to fill it.

I really wish I could get through to you how certain things that people do are a disgrace to skinning. My view of skinning that is.

You know, I can't stand Peta but they do have a way of making things happen. If you fight for the really absurd, the slightly absurd stuff starts to sound reasonable.