PS : the only reason why i play Sins Of Solar Empire with Linux is that it allow me to use my 16 gb ram, it allow me to use my 8 core... and it allow me to use the bios option "Discrete MTTR Allocation" who achieve better graphics effects... these last work only on machine with more that 4gb and Unix/Linux system...
A other example, a old game "Serious Sam"... windows XP pro x64 allow me 112 frame per second... same game on Linux with the same material but the "Discrete MMTR Allocation" on in the bios give a little over 1500 fps...
Yes, forget to say, i have a server board... bios of professional material are oriented linux/unix system... on the server side, linux is 5 of 10, FreeBsb is 3 of 10 and windows is only 2 of ten... Several network firewall and router standalone products use a embedded linux system... my sat system, my Tivo digital video recorder record use embedded Linux too... Linux is everywhere... it is not because you don't see it that it don't exist!
More and more goverment are using Linux system too... more cheap and secure... in the extreme case, the china gov have create his own Linux distro...
At a other level, the PlayStation 3 ( more of 17 million unit sold ) is able to run the Linux OS ... Better, Linux can run on Xbox using a Linux softmod who utilizes a save exploit but Windows and Vista are not able to run on a Xbox !!! The Wii is able to run linux too...
Without knowing it, a lot of Windows fan are using linux every days...
Are you implying that PS3, XBox and Wii are running Linux? That's funny
FPS counts over 60 are useless, so I don't care if I get a billion fps on some old game. How well does your computer play Crysis for example?
And yes.. my router runs Linux, and it works fine. It doesn't mean my desktop would be better running linux than vista.
I'll just stop posting in this thread, we're not really getting anywhere here.
Hey, my PS3 is running linux! YDL to be precise.
Ok... I just had to reply to this....
Yeah, but a stock one doesn't. If someone claims that it does, then even my computer run on linux (which *currently* is not installed on it, even though I usually have an installation), as it obviously CAN have it installed.
I'm not entirely sure what the base OS on the PS3 is. In the early days it was rumoured to be linux, but that seems to have remained rumour. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the core that XBM sits on is linux. It would make a lot more sense than Sony starting from scratch.
I wrote : "are able"... they can run linux...
Perfectly... opengl 3.0 use the same level of hardware as is required for DirectX 10... but DX10 is for Vista owner and i don't wish buy a new OS for a simple game if my XP pro x64 work good with all the rest... so, the crysis game was installed on Linux and Win XP pro x64... on Linux with max setting and on win with the setting allowed for DX09...
Why keep Win Xp !!! Simply because online game don't work good ordon't work at all with Linux...
I am far to be a Linux extremist... my system have a boat loader and 3 system... Linux, Win Xp pro x64 and OpenSolaris... each of these system have his own quality and default... if game work very good on my linux system in single player, it is simply because Nvidia give a very good driver for linux and that my motherboard is a server board, optimized for Unix ( from where linux is derived )... for stability, i use open solaris from Sun... it's a UNIx kernel with linux application... ZFS system is the best one related to data security... and all driver for my material was directly installed... keep windows for online game annd a few apllication who don't work on the other one ( by example Poser 7 pro version )
This is the real problem... OS fighting each other... each OS have his own good and bad side... if they where able to work together, you will have a top OS who is good at almost everything for the benefice of user... i don't like the closed source of Win... we need to wait month for patch... i don't like the GPL licence from several Linux software... it stop other commercial to use the linux good code... LGPL or BSB license are better, they allow commercial to use Linux code... It is not without reason that MAC OS X was based on free BSB...
To be honest, i have try the MAC OS X by a friend... it is the more intuitive and better integrated human interface and GUI that i have never see... MAC OS X is nothing more that a commercial linux/unix system but one who know real success, they are taking share of the computer market at a fast speed...
Unfortunaly, the material by Apple have a very high prices... my actual computer have everything that you can found in the Mac Pro from 15000 euro... only two difference is that i have pay only 5000 euro for it and that i am missing one little apple chip who can allow me to run MAC OS X on it...
About some comment from other post in the previous page... Windows have no problem reading or writing ext3 linux partition... it is already a lot of year that the driver exist... Yes, a standart linux installation is more slow that a windows one... compiling from source allow to remove the hundred of thing that you don't use and a win of 25% in speed related to win is not unusual... compiling a kernel and his module is not a task for a usual user...
I have 3 OS and each of them work good for the task that i give them... they complement each other... all new processor support virtualization... this is the future... being able to use any piece of software with the best OS for it on the same desktop...
we're not really getting anywhere here.
Agree... it is the usual one side against the other one... more a fight that a constructive one... when it is related to Stardock and Sins... it is no problem at all... game engine work on both Linux and Windows... Linux allow the use of more ram and multicore use but windows allow multiplayer game... so, for huge mod, i use linux and for Vanilla sins, i use Windows for online game...
When related to the first post, opengl is not a wise financial choice for Stardock... if they plan to make a sins2 and made it for game console and PC... in these case, opengl will be a wise financial choice... Never forget that Stardock is a little business... if they take a too much risk, and fail, they can be closed tomorrow... will be very bad since Stardock is one of the few good guys ( they are not perfect but nobody is )...
For information, opengl have a lot more instruction that DX... but a little more of 50% of them are not use in game or usual application... only my professional 3D application use them... with each version, DX and opengl become more similar... soon of later, they will converge to the same point, these that customer/user ask for... compatibility will not more be a problem...
About Vista... i think that it is not a bad OS... mainly, i like the restricted right ( like on Linux )... it allow a more strong and stable system... unfortunaly, user have complain a lot that they have not directly the admin right... but these restriction are the one who protect you from bad internet thing like worm and virus... never forget, Vista is young but it is a powerfull system... of course old computer can know ram problem but what the hell, we are in 2009... ram is cheap... all material is cheap... Vista is not cheap but related to some piece of software, it is like something free... by example, Maya for Mac/win/Linux is around the 5000$...
Not related to game... How much is priced Sins and how much is priced Crysis ( for example )... the first one have around 50% lower price, have a gameplay of unlimited hours in single player ( Crysis scenaria was finish in around 60 hours ), have a good support... patch coming day after day, not because they have a bad soft but because they try to make customer happy... a boxed linux version is more expensive that Sins... I am a linux guy, i am a open source guy but Stardock will be the last one that i complain... I have a lot of converted friend who use linux and their game Sins... it is really a good product ( you are not listed in all the top 10 2008 game rating without reason )... linux guy work hard for make the online game work and they have already begin work on the impulse engine... they are the linux guy who can appreciate the value of a good commercial business and the quality of their product...
One last thing... to much people thing that free linux mean "free of charge", "gratis", "no need to pay"... the "free" is meaning freedom... a real linux guy have nothing against commercial business... and for info, linux is far to be free of charge... a red hat server edition is around the 3000$ !!! It is simply a other business model... a little like Stardock have made with sins by using no copy protection... so much people have say that they will fail... now, everybody know the result, they was right...
As much as I like Linux, I don't think that's true. Linux is just not for everyone (yet). Even the most user friendly distributions lack the ease that Windows offers. I had several Gentoo systems running for a while and am now using Kubuntu on my desktop machine but still there is quite a lot of contact with the command line. The command line will make a LOT of people use Windows over Linux. And I don't see that chaning in the near future.
Yes, if it works, don't fix it. The PC market right now is sadly not working. We have a monopoly that screws up the market. So we have to fix it.There is nothing wrong with using Windows. It's a nice operating system and it certainly has its advantages over Linux in some fields. But that's no reason not to support Linux. If software runs on both systems it can only be a gain for both user and software developer.
Well, that's perfectly fine with me. I don't think it would be good idea situation if everyone did prefer Linux over Windows. Even if we consider Windows a toy, it has a clear reason to exist, many computers serve solely as a toy.
Linux doesn't need to be for everyone, and I think you can remove the "(yet)", there will always be people liking another OS better. For Linux, it is sufficient to become as user-friendly enough that the "poor average user" can use a Linux-system without much trouble. That point has been reached years ago and I dare to say that, regarding user-friendlyness, Linux is ahead in more areas than Microsoft fans should be comfortable with.
We need to keep voting with the wallet. It's challenging, for example, votes to reward Stardock for its efforts regarding gamers rights are at the same rewards for being Windows-only, at the same we reward Microsoft for a legal copy of the OS. While I try to reward as many Linux efforts as possible, I may be spending as much money on Windows stuff.
But, Microsofts position has never been so weak for the last 10-15 years. The PC market not only needs to change, it is changing. It goes slow, but it does happen.
I did read something about Linux computers being sold with the terminal/command line disabled. If it is now feasible for Linux to be used without learning commands, then it's well on its way to a broader audience..
Ubuntu Linux (and a dozen other distros) can be used without touching the command line. As you play around with Linux, you'll find that terminal commands make certain tasks, such as burning .iso files, incredibly easy and efficient. I have zero programming and UNIX experience, but I run Ubuntu just fine. Dare I say that it's easier to use and maintain than Windows XP.Everyday users won't have to touch the command line on modern Linux distros.Hell, Windows has a command prompt and you don't see it scaring people away. In fact, many common tutorials and guides ask Windows users to enter commands (ip config)Windows =/= Linux. At this point in time, major Linux distros are not less user-friendly than Windows. They're just different.
The thing is that with Windows, you can really do almost everything without the command line. True, with (K)Ubuntu you don't need it for most of the tasks but there are still a lot that force you to use it. The Linux sound system for example is seriously lacking (I didn't try out the new KDE 4 with its sound system, maybe they fixed stuff). Flash and out-of-the-box Java implementations are also an issue: Most free Java runtimes don't work as good as the one from Sun - which is not included because of license issues and has to be manually installed. Same goes for stuff like video and audio codecs. The whole procedure of insalling mp3 support and the w32codecs is a pain. Getting DVDs to run has the same problems - yes, libdvdcss is awesome and makes DVDs play. But it doesn't run out of the box. And there are still a few flash videos that don't play right on my Linux machine.
Linux has made awesome progress, especially since (K)Ubuntu matured - but it still has a long way to go. I wouldn't recommend it as OS for my grandmother yet
Voting with the wallet is a good thing. The problem is that I want to vote for StarDocks great policy on DRM but against their policy on Windoes/Linux. That's quite hard to do
When it was the last time that you have use Kubuntu ? Progress have be made a long time ago... My own version is a old one, they have made two new version since... I am always with the old KDE serie 3...
For software are not in the cd/dvd for license reason... but once you have install the system, it ask if you wish enable the restricted software... in case of "yes", the Nvidia driver is installed in place of the Nv one from xorg...
For all the rest, it is simple... more simple that with windows... i open my adept manager ( graphic mode ) and install the "kubuntu-restricted-extras"... a 32k software piece who install sun Java, Mp3 + Lame ( lame is for the coding ), Flash, and DVD playback... same method for the Win32 sound/video codec... not very different from Windows people who need to install klite codec pack for be able to see some video...
Yes, in some case, you don't have the original the driver/software... i am using a 64 bit Linux and in some case, i need to install a alterative piece because it don't exist in 64 bits... both on Windows and Linux... in some rare case, you have a 64 bits alternative soft on Linux and now on Windows !!!
The only video who will never play on Linux is these with DRM embedded in them... these who connect to the net for check if you have the right to play them, these who can be play only a limited of time, etc...
Serik wrote :
This is almost as bad as the "you need a $5,000 computer to play games" misconception.
I have a +5000$ computer... it was needed for the 3D work... render a complex scene at 12000px was asking a full night... now, it is made in 15 min... Games run good on my system but until now, no one game is able to use all his power... for only gaming, a 5000$ computer is throw money to the trashcan... my old monocore P5 3.6gh with 4gb ram and a good graphics card was more that enough for Game...
For modding, the big machine is a plus... by example, in case of sins, i can run in the same time several game in windowed mode... it is very interesting to beta test a mod... of course, for this, i use Linux again... Windows have not a single click method for run more that one sins game, using different configuration, using different version of sins, etc...
Everyday users won't have to touch the command line on modern Linux distros.
But the lazzy one like me will always use the command line... you have a lot of software for by example, convert a mpg to avi (xvid + mp3 )... let say that you have a collection with 1000 of merry melodies/loney tone cartoon... convert them in GUI mode will ask a lot of work and time ( GUI is slower that command line )... maybe you will need to buy a new mouse because she will be used after the process...
Now, i simply have create a little script... copy it to the folder with video, click on it... a command line windows open and the script start running... once finish, all is converted... on one side, you have several thousand click and on the other side, you have only a few...
It is very similar to the microsoft office power user... they don't use the mouse because you loose time... they simply memorize all the keyboard shortcut...
The same with game... in case of sins, everything can be made with mouse... but each action can have a key associated with... once you know them, you win several second or minute in case of battle... these second can make the difference between a victory or loose the battle...
If i good remember, some time ago, someone have post a very short batch command ( windows ) for convert all the entity file to text in one time, using the convert.exe from Sins... again a example of the power of command line and scripting...
I absolutely do. You know all those little KDE games? They are a big hit amongst older people, I have seen a few become instant gamers The K-menu rather easy for them to learn to understand, to make it even easier you remove a few buttons they never use. Also Konqueror and Kmail appear to be learned rather quickly.
What you need to be carefull with old people is unexpected popups, icons that aren't present in the places they expect, and so on. Unlike young people, old people often don't try to interpret the situation or experiment, they just ask for help at once. Linux is well suited to reduce these situations.
One thing noticed by a few old people is that they were unable to mess up their system on Linux. I.e. it's not that hard for a novice user to rename the program files directory and make the system unusable. They did notice that under Linux this is not so easy, they have to become root to destroy the system, if you have even told told them about the existance of the root account at all...
I agree you can't explain old person how to download libdvdcss and integrate it in Xine. As plenty of people are phoning me to install DVD playback software on their Windows system as well, one can question wether it really is a problem.
Neither does Linux, you're just running a second instance of the emulator. And that can be done singleclick on a windows pc too using vwmware or virtual pc.
Wine is not an emulator. And no, you're not running a second instance of it.
You can't do the same on windows as 3d does not work on Virtual Machines (yet).
Sorry, I was tired when typing. I'm well aware wine is not an emulator. It's a <buzzword yadda yadda, which means it tricks the software to believe it runs under windows>.
http://www.vmware.com/support/ws55/doc/ws_vidsound_d3d_enabling.html
I haven't tried if it works on Sins... But the feature is there, even though it's experimental.
Simply running a second instance of wine will not work since each instance will use the same wine configuration... we will have the same problem that with Windows...
The trick is made by playonlinux, when you install a game, each game is wrapped with his own wine and own configuration file...ok, it add around 50mb to each install but it is nothing when compare the installation of a OS in all virtual machine...
Vmware is great but it use a lot ressource because few processor have the VT-x from intel or AMD-V needed for a good virtualization ... and it is not so easy to configure use for newbies... I use myself the ESX version for Linux... it is the only good way for sins to use more that one core... in place of two Xeon quad core at 2.88 gh, the virtual PC processor for sins is a usual P5 monocore with 10 ghz...
For virtual PC from Microsoft, it is a fraud... they claim that it is free... yes, it is free for emulate low end system... but if you wish really use it power, specially the Hyper-V ( similar to the ESX ) who allow to use the hardware virtualization ( and not a software one ), you need minimum the server 2008 ( desktop version of win and vista don't allow it )... the standart edition of server 2008 at 971$ don't work too... you need a more expensive one, over the 1000$... not really a good choice for a game at 50$ ( lower in case of Stardock who break the usual price )
Now, if you take a look at the ESX version of VMware, it is system independant ( hardware virtualisation )... the virtual machine is installed before any OS... take a look at the boot... first, a linux kernel based on the 2.6 series ( for the base material ), second the VM kernel warped around the first kernel, followed by the VM gui...
Sure windows have everything that linux have... but not with the standart edition... a other example is the 3d desktop... these funny new Aero who is not available in Windows Vista Home Basic nor Windows Vista Starter editions... 3d desktop ( compiz and beryl ) are available for any basic linux version and from long time ago...
Hey, i use windows because i have no choice... some of my application don't work on Linux... but in the last 10 years, more and more, i am running linux... game are not a exception... have never know a blue screen on linux... not true, it have happen when i was messing up with a kernel that i have compiled myself ( for these who have never see it, the linux "blue screen" is a "bomb" )...
The more fun with linux is when i install a new version... by example from a old Mandriva version to a very new kubuntu one... my home folder remain, all my application configuration, all my e-mail, all my internet bookmark... new application use them directly... plug-in are upgraded directly... with windows, i need to reinstall everything, configure all my application again...
Hmmm... will not more post in these topic... can discuss a long time without reach a end... both OS have their quality and default... when see at top level, they are equal in power... my problem is with the standart edition, who is a bad limited version... dev need to make game using these limited edition because it is these that the more people use ( mainly, it is already installed when they buy the computer )... on the other side, linux have the same software package for any level of distribution... the only difference between a server version at 3000$ and the desktop one at 50$ is the support ( free one have no official support )... but it mean that everybody use the same software, making Linux look more powerfull on desktop level... support is very important for professional, down time mean money loss... microsoft support is bad... listen during 3 hours some music at the phone before a human operator is able to listen your problem is not normal... more bad is when these operator reply : "this problem is not listed in my computer database, so it is not a windows problem, bye... click"... or something like this :"You cannot connect to the internet... do you have a error code? Yes!! Great, send a screenshot via e-mail... What? Send via fax! No, sorry, the procedure say send via e-mail"... Microsoft helpdesk have no technician at home, only stupid guy who follow procedure on a screen, without having a brain to think what they say... it is the main reason why professional don't choose windows since the pro server version of windows are really good at the software level...
Will you find normal that when you buy a new car and receive it, you have no wheel ? That the garage ask you a huge amount of money for these ( no choice of use other one since they have take care to be incompatible with all the other brand )... once the expensive wheel in place, you see that you have no battery for start... of course, you need the expensive microsoft battery at 12.5 volt, the usual one at 12 volt don't work... i call this business malpratice and i certainly don't support it... it is why i only use XP pro x64 and not vista x64... tired to invest in microsoft for gadget who don't work correctly...
If business like Stardock make money with windows, it is because of the problem of windows... why need a wincustomize if you are able to customize it yourself... A lot of business suupport Microsoft because windows is buggy... they need a buggy system to sell their product...
Vmware fusion ( MAC ) :
Direct X 9.0 is supported in VMWare Fusion through dynamic recompilation to OpenGL instructions
http://www.youtube.com/v/xF_CoXsXtk4
For Linux :
http://forum.sabayonlinux.org/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=10202
Workstation 6.5 virtual machines now work with applications that use DirectX 9 accelerated graphics with shaders up through Shader Model 2.0 on Windows XP guests
For windows : don't know, have never try to install a virtual machine on windows...
As incredibly fast and efficient as double clicking a file? Because that's all I need to do in my current OS.
To be honest, there's nothing really "slow" about drag and drop. The only time when it can be slow is when you have to automate a bunch of actions that are hard to automate in a GUI. If it's something as simple as copying files, then it's a single drag and drop, and a command line isn't really any faster.
It's basically when what you want to do is complex where the command line stuff really shines. Although if it gets too complex, you're really talking about writing an application or script.
I don't need to buy a single microsoft product other than Vista/XP/Windows 7 (or whatever the flavor of the month is) to have a fully functional OS...
No... no double click...
Linux people are lazy... so, a simple click will open it in the K3B software... of course, if you really wish, you can configure Linux to use a double click in place of a single one... was my main problem when i have migrate from windows to linux... by reflex, i double click everything... and open everything 2 times...
If the ISO is some video film, a right click and open with kaffeine ( by example ) will direct play the film...
Assuming it's some format that is implemented... That's an application issue rather than an OS issue though. It's not like it would be impossible to implement into windows if someone took the effort to code a bit.
Disagree. Example:
cp /tmp/ninja.png ~
You cannot do this with less keyboard + mouse clicks in a GUI, regardless wether the GUI is KDE, Gnome, Aqua or Aero.
Another example, typing:
grep -r Ninja *.txt
... is a lot faster than using the "Find files" function of the GUI.
A drag & drop itself may be fast, but opening windows, navigating to the right directory, scrolling through files costs time.
Good for you that you think so...
He made the wrong analogy. His point however, that Windows has terrible support unless you pay huge sums, is valid.
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