My opinion is that your only enabling people to complain by continuing to discuss it. That's how these types of charatcers work.... as long as there remains a discussion they feel like they might actually get something for free if people talk enough.

You'll never shut them up, so instead, make them not exist anymore by ignoring their opinions. They do not need or deserve an explanation as they already know that things cost money.

I just think that we become the fool by enabling them.

Some people will complain no matter how good they have it.  It doesn't mean that I have to listen to them.  And if no one listens to whiners maybe (however unlikely) they'll stop out of 1) boredom  or 2) relizing that their behavior needs modification for the current situation.

I don't think it's mean.

Chasbo, imagine your at a check out line and your child starts stomping their feet because you won't buy them any candy. If you crack and get them some candy, they will always stomp their feet. It isn't mean to tell them no. It's just the wise thing to do.

NT I agree totally with your last statement. I want to leave this discussion now.

While is conversation is steering a different route, I would like to say that, there are a lot of people who simply don't understand why paying for software is important. I'm not talking about a moral or legal issue. They simply don't get why the prices of software differ. Moreover, they don't know the most of the uses of the software they already have. So, they don't get the full use out of what they are paying for. This often leads to frustration and confusion. We see it all the time in these forums.

Moreover, the less computer savvy tend become even more frustrated when they are the victims of things like Sony's rootkit, starforce, or hacks due to security flaws. Things they payed for left their system in worse shape then it was before.

I'm not making excuses for anyone here. I'm just pointing out that the reason some people are annoyed by software much more "human."

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm still hesitant about using my credit card online. I took the chance last year and purchased Object Desktop, crossed my fingers, hit the send button and all was well. So I've bought a few other programs since from Stardock and a WC subscription. But I'd still feel nervous on other sites besides this one.

It falls under greed/guilt justification IMO. Many people with that mentality want every thing for free and with Piracy rampant they typically get it that way. So many of them gripe about the costs to justify "in their own minds" grabbing Pirated editions. Basically many do it to make them selves feel less the thief when downloading Pirated materials.


Just my 2 cents..

I may be in the minority, but I consider the .NET CLI/CLR to be the most important software invention of the last 15 years (yes, even moreso than my beloved C++). A common compiled bytecode, standardized as an international standard, which is designed to be the compile target for innumerable languages (compared with JavaBytecode, which is designed to be compiled from only the Java language).

.NET would never have come from the FSF community nor the Open Source community. It requires too much incubation, too much singular vision and direction, to have been designed among the "bazaar" of the open source community. It's just not the kind of thing that Open Source is good at making. They're good at taking something like that and improving on it (see Mono), but to invent it to begin with requires more than the Open Source community is able to provide.



Well, except for the last few years when they've been opening up various bits of software to varying degrees.



That is very strange logic. You like the product enough to say that it's worth the money, but you wouldn't have bought it if not for something that has very little relevance to the actual product itself.

Then again, it is very much in keeping with the FSF ideals: support something not for what they do for you, but because their ideology matches yours.



Only when you completely misinterpret a conversation. The "less modular" group never once disparaged their opponents in the way you describe.

Not mythical. In fact very much a reality. If it was a myth there would be no torrent sites offering pirated materials, no car thefts, no robberies, no burglaries, no muggings etc... the fact is there are people out there who dont want to pay for anything. With the advent of the internet it has become more rampant as many feel "they buy the PC, all software should be free".

Many say well "it's not hurting any body since were not stealing any Tangible goods, no Physical property was stolen so their not out anything"  WRONG. That dev or artist etc made the materials with the intent to sell it to make a living.. to feed their families.. To pay their bills.  So by stealing their programs/art works etc. People are essentially taking the food right out of the devs families mouths, Denying them the ability to earn a decent living, pay bills and just get paid for at times months or years worth of work... Yeh.. How many people are willing to put that kind of time in at work and not expect a pay check????? 


Il wager if any Entitlists  went to work and busted their humps and then were told "hey you should be doing this for Free so were not paying you" they would be throwing a fit and threatening to sue. Ironic huh ?

As for Open source software? I fully support it. A few of us here actually helped get one of the most popular (of it's time) open source desktop customization programs off the ground.

But the reality is that Paid developers/coders get the job done quicker if only for the fact, they get paid to do it under a controlled environment. Im not saying that open source cant stand up to built for $$ software, just that push come to shove the paid programmers are typically more organized. why ? because they have to be. Open source typically programmers come and go as their interest peaks and falls to the way side. Often they leave another dev to try to figure out what they were doing and go from there. These types of issues can and have been often very hampering to the open source community. But being open source it comes with the territory, people come and go as they choose.


With paid programmers\artists this is their life line, their way of living and many of them spend their free time developing the very open source programs many surfers covet so deeply. What some fail to see is, that by ripping off Paid developers they may starve out the very Programmers building their fave open source Progs, as many can only afford the free time due to the revenues Provided by the for sale programs.

Food for thought huh ?

yes Please realize that I do not imply that all those who follow the latter's thinking indulge in warez . but you also must understand that at times, that one often spawns from the other, So occasionally the lines between the two get blurry.

There are tons of very good software around that you don't have to pay for. Nearly all of the tools I'm using - browser, eMail client, IRC client, FTP client, office suite, image viewer, media players, system tools etc. are freeware. And all of those are very good, mature programs.

And there's nothing wrong with that.

However, like children who received so many gifts that they start crying and stomping their feet on a day without one, there are always people who take it for granted that they don't have to pay for good software. And that's wrong. While it's absolutely amazing how much professional software you can get today without paying a dime, this totally depends on the dedication and generosity of the people who make these products. There's no entitlement to free software whatsoever, no matter how much any spoiled child may have gotten used to getting everything for free. It's the other way round, the people who produce free products are entitled to receive the gratefulness of these products' users.