In light of the uproar over Miley Cyrus' "scandalous" photograph ,[https://forums.joeuser.com/310120/page/1/#1719278], so vastly overrated! I’m all for protecting our children and I am not certainly in favor of them being forced to grow up before their time. In other words, doing or getting involved in anything that is not for them because they are too young and don’t need to be involved with anything that would be bad for them!
Braeden, aka Sancho Nino made a comment on the blog that I wrote regarding the scandal, it was an interesting and enlightening response which made me go ‘hmmm..” and gave me more food for thought.
Sancho Responded:
“Maybe this is my newly-installed European sensibilities talking, but I don't get what all the fuss is about.Went to the beach today. Saw hundreds of naked tits. Some of them on girls Miley's age.And guess what? BFD. It's her back; it's not a seductive pose at all; and come on, people.If folks be getting horny off stuff like this they need help anyway.”
Notice my emphasis on the first thing he said. “Newly-installed European sensibilities”! It got me asking myself, “Do we Americans get too hot and bothered too easily?” “Do we tend to over-think and over-dramatized and tend to get too hot and bothered too quickly over everything, or at least most things?” “Are we too prudish in our outlook, or maybe we are just too sensitive to our sexuality”! The word itself seems to get us (speaking generally) all uptight!
Braeden said that he was at the beach and saw hundreds (I know he was probably exaggerating, but it made his point!) of naked tits. It is such a natural thing Europeans take so naturally, almost as if it’s as natural as breathing!
They don’t hide (I’m talking out of my mouth here – tongue in cheek – i.e. I don’t have facts, but merely from what I’ve read and some of the people I know) their bodies as much as we seem to do. They are not scared of talking openly about sex and nudity the way we seem to be. They are a pretty open (liberal, inhibited) bunch of people!
We tend to be too serious all the time when maybe we should laugh at something or not take it in the manner it seems to present itself, i.e., at face value!
In our lives, so many of us are under strict rules and policies all the time. So much so that we take these types of rules into our personal lives (unconsciously) and that is how we become so stressed!
I know there are a few of us who do take it easy and not let things bother us. But there is the other 80% who most times because of religion, turn into faceless people who adhere to only one thing, one way of living, one way of doing everything! So we end up looking at life through these dark glasses and we don’t see beyond the lines that have been crossed for us.
Don't get me wrong, when it comes to our children, we are very protective of them, as we should be, however, there are times when we put our own insecurities on them and which becomes their burden.
I know it’s not easy being a parent, more than anything else, I don’t even like to think that I’m a failure as a mom, because there are times I do feel like one. Especially given the situation with my older daughter, leaving home early, that was a hard pill to swallow. But as I told my husband recently, she might not have gone on the path we wanted her to go, but she is making her own way, and she is doing alright, she is just doing it on her own terms. I think that is all our children want from us. As we as adults would want from our own bosses, or friends, or our spouses. For someone to believe in us, trust us, and let us be to take our own path in life.
There will be times when it’s necessary to over re-act, when it is appropriate, like when children are being abused, but there are just some times, as in the case of a simple photograph, when over reaction is too much.
Good answer! To the point and all that!lol!
You know, I keep hearing about how much more "enlightened" europe is than us poor rednecks in America, but when I look at the reality, it just doesn't hold up.
Sure, there are nude beaches in Europe, but there are nude beaches here too. The difference is, we have beaches where you can go if you want to associate with nudists and beaches where you can go if you don't. In their "enlightned" society, if you don't want to see nude bodies, you have to stay away from the beach. How is that "enlightened".
I also hear that we're too prudish when it comes to nudity in ads and articles. I like the fact that I get to decide if I want to buy magazines with nudity in them or not.
in Europe there are no choices, if you don't want to see nudity, well, tough. Worse yet, if you don't want to see nudity they pompously look down on you like there's something wrong with you.
So, do we get hot and bothered when nudity (or partial nudity) is thrust in our faces... yes. Why? Because we expect the freedom to decide for ourselves.
I think we as a society still have an air of Puritan like attitudes. Granted some vary, but over all we suddenly are (as you eloquantly put it) scandalized when something like this happens. Perhaps it is because of religion, perhaps it just is. But, personally, I'm not going to fuss over something like this. Why? Because there are actual underage girls out there that are being sold as sex girls (like in thailand, and ive read about it here too), girls who are taken advantage of sexually, and girls that have had nude pictures taken of them (of which some apparentlly have gotten out). Something like this is trivial compared to stuff like that.
So Miley Cirus took a provocative photo.....and?
~Luca
That we do Ted, we definitely do! But my point is, we do get too caught up in the idea of our freedom. So much so that we don't enjoy ourselves anymore because we are too busy wondering what the other person thinks!
I caught myself the other day, lecturing my kids, when all they were doing is just being kids! I wanted them to do something a certain way, they did it their way, with the noisiness and dexterity of kids, and then some, and with a gaggle of friends! I realised, wait a minute, what is my problem? Let it go and let them be exactly what they should be doing, be kids! Hope you understand what I'm trying to say there, I get so wordy sometimes!
The many cases I've heard about myself about young girls and boys who are being abused by grown men and women, it is a sad, sad thing. It is horrific that there are children here and abroad who have to go through things like that, and live in situations like that every breathing moment. The picture is trivial over something like this for sure.
And I know the people who did protest it (the picture) went ahead of themselves and thought that this is where it would lead to with her (i.e., drugs, alcohol, etc).
The thing is, as I said, they were putting the cart before the horse. She's a sensible girl, who still needs her parents guidance, obviously. But she was one of the lucky ones who tried something, and found out that it is not for her and realise that this is not the way to go. But instead of handling it in a way that would be positive for Miley Cyrus, all the media and every other person who was interviewed aobut it did was, predicted her downfall and basically made her feel like shit. Which kid needs that type of thing dumped on them....none!
Yes, we absolutely get too worked up about nudity etc. We all have the same bits and pieces so to speak. Do you remember when the government paid thousands of dollars for curtains to cover up a statue with a bare breast? ridiculous.
Of course, I don't think we should sexualize children either.
Uh uh....I'm a telling you...something is wrong with us!lol!
Of course not!
Oh and SanChonino....forgive me for mangling your alias!
I can't speak for Europe or even other Americans.
This photo would not be appropriate for MY daughter. Not at 15 and not for public consumption.
If it isn't about sexualizing a minor, then why have the top gone in the first place? Wouldn't the picture have been just as good with it on?
And here's what really gets me about this whole deal.
Billy Rae Cyrus (her dad) was on set all day before leaving a couple hours before wrap up. Why wait for him to leave before doing this? Why not ask him? And if it was so innocent why is she now saying how embarrassed she is? That she wishes she didn't do it?
Take nudity out for a minute and ask yourself this....if you were with your kid at a photo shoot all day in which she wore jeans and a blouse, and as soon as you left they put her in a bikini without ever mentioning it, or asking permission...wouldn't you be pissed?
I would.
And then to have her regret it...if it wasn't wrong to her then she wouldn't be so sorry she did it. She wouldn't be on national tv saying it was a mistake and she was embarrassed.
I feel for the kid. She was taken advantage of by people she obviously trusted, publically humiliated by them. That's the bigger crime imo.
Good grief! My computer was acting weird! I'll respond to you guys tomorrow, or make that later in the day since it is already tomorrow.
Honestly, what I think she really regrets is that it has caused such a major controversy.
Tova makes an intersting point. It's not so cool to change the shoot like that after a parent leaves. That more than anything is inappropriate.
However, what I think the big deal seems to be is that Americans (I guess anywhere with a huge celebrity culture... Canadians mostly borrow the American one and Britain has some issue) have this huge desire to put someone on this untouchable pedastal and then it becomes a national pastime to see who can be the first to knock them off by catching them being human. I can't imagine the pressure of being constantly watched for the smallest mistake and then having it broadcast everywhere.
I'm not just talking about the Brittany or Lindsay Lohan implosion. Say if you're a celebrity who happens to have cellulite (despite the odds against that ever happening) and you're trying to lose weight, the media (maybe your agent?) makes you into a symbol. Then everyone watches to see if you fall off the wagon and maybe take a lick of ice-cream. Now you're the fattie who can't resist sweets and you're one step away from being carted to the fat-farm. Take this template and apply it to a variety of situations. A lot of people, and anyone with insecurities, will implode.
The other media obsession seems to be with the "fallen woman." There are lots of freaky guys out there but they never make as good copy as when it happens to a woman. The more a woman has been on the pedastal, the better the copy when she falls. And if the fall isn't so big, it's exaggerated and harped on in hopes of forcing a bigger mistake.
The solution? Stop looking to the media for role-models and look for real-life models closer to home. Of course, your family or neighbor will never sell as many newspapers or bottles of perfume. This is only a big deal because people are trying to sell newspapers and products.
The solution? Stop looking to the media for role-models and look for real-life models closer to home. Of course, your family or neighbor will never sell as many newspapers or bottles of perfume. This is only a big deal because the media is trying to sell newspapers and products.
And here's another thought I had this early morning.
Who decided and when that women's bared breasts are immodest? Why can men walk around shirtless all the time and it's no big deal, but it's a cardinal sin for women to do the same?
What is the physiological (or is it psychological?) difference between the flat-chested men and fat-chested women that gets us all in a dither?
I'm tied up and not ignoring you guys. Good discussion! My daughter is 'hauling' me off to the pool, so later!
My thoughts exactly...
Well said.
And again...
I had a number of comments to make about this subject but mine seem to be covered more than adequately by the above, with the exception of one thing... I believe the whole incident was probably a big set up to gain her even more publicity. And guess what? Its worked a treat...
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