No.
Skirantra is not a good choice. It heals shit by up to 30HP/sec for 10 seconds for 100AM and that's all the use it has. Microphasing Aura = MEH. Scramble bombers = shit. Replicate forces = shit.
Vulkoras at level 6 is an awesome planet bomber with an ability to deal nice damage to structures, but that's about it. PMS sucks (don't force me to throw maths at you!) and disintegration sucks. Even if I would consider these two as "decent abilities", which is overrating them by far, they're still not worth taking because each point in PMS is one less point in siege platforms/assault specialization. This means that each point in PMS takes away from what this ship is really good at.
Antorak is lol.I can write a book on all possible applications of Phase Out hull, but the truth still stands - it's never really useful. It's never really worth getting this ship above another and definately not worth levelling it up. Its main application is phase out hull as a counter on MB or CB. Subversion is lol. Annoying at best, lol.Distort Gravity is lol. Wears off before ships turn 90 degrees with the retarded turn rates on units in this game. lol. Ships start doing circles because the feel an urge to change their phase jump point from what is right in front of them to what they will have to turn 160 degrees to reach. lol. The coolest thing is when you tap Distort Gravity and order you units to go somewhere behind them. They will spread out all over the gravity well and once they finally turn that 180 degrees and pass the point they started at, the ability wears off. LOL.Who the f... coded this behavior anyway? That frigates start moving forward when I order them backwards? When I want you to get AWAY from that starbase I REALLY don't want you to crash into its short range weapon hardpoint first for effin sake! This ship is just ... lol.
What else.Kortul is a meh ship. Vol Nans are meh. Power surge is very meh. Disruptive strikes are tactically sound (if my ship is useless that yours will be as well, bwahahaa!) and Jam Weapons is just yet another SC counter, not really better than Kol's burst or Halcyon's Push. Just does it in a different way.
My opinion on caps is: if any developer says that Vasari caps are "ok", I'm throwing this game out of the window, ignoring the fact that I bought it digitally.
Okay... First off, I agree with the fact that the Egg is good, but I also believe the others have their uses.
Kortul: Good battleship which can counter anything you throw at it.
Power Surge: increases the DPS of this ship by about 80% for 30 seconds with another 10 seconds after that. It also regenerates health faster. This requires so little AM for what it does, I generally classify it as a demi-passive. This is quite good.
Jam Weapons: Deactivates SC in a very large radius. A couple Kortuls and just a few sentinels can negate any number of SC you throw at them.
Disruptive Strikes [Passive]: This ability is bugged. As it stands though, it is still good enough to prevent the enemy from using annoying things like Shield Regen and Shield Restore. If fixed, this would make it far harder for enemy support ships to heal their allies as they would have no AM to do it with.
Volatile Nanites: This is a mass Pinpoint Targeting. It increases damage done by 30% (very big boost in this game) and causes them to hurt each other upon death. Call me crazy, but that is pretty good.
Skirantra: Good healing ship which allows friendly SC to stay alive far longer than normal, making them more effective.
Repair Cloud: Awesome ability. It heals 300 hull to all ships in the radius, including SC. This is why most people get this ship.
Microphasing Aura: This greatly improves the survivability of SC. By making them dodge enemy fire, they don't die as quickly and it also allows them to deal more damage. This is good.
Scramble Bombers: This is crap, I'll agree with you there. I think it is a general consensus in the community that this needs to be reworked.
Replicate Forces: No its not the best one ever, but it is still helpful. I tend to use this on sentinels and overseers. If bombing a planet, it can help there as well.
Antorak: Hehehehe... Yeah.. Have to agree with you there. This is the crappiest capital in the game.
Phase Out Hull: Yeah... This is just a weird form of Ion Bolt. It does stop CB and MB though, so it is helpful to at least get one point in this...
Subversion: Yep, agree with you there. Since I tend to have factories on border worlds and those right behind them, this tends to have very little effect. I suppose it would be good at preventing an enemy from setting up an SB though... In that way it would help a lot...
Distort Gravity: Yeah, the ships use the same AI as before, only now they go fast so it screws up their movement... It is helpful in moving across vast distances, but then again, that is what you have Phase Gates for, so this doesn't really help that much unless going through enemy territory...
Stabilize Phase Space: This is actually pretty good. By activating this right before you fire your Kostura, you can send your fleet straight towards the enemy's homeworld. On the flip side, if attacking deep in enemy territory and the enemy suddenly shows up with a level 6+ Holy Trinity/multiple Marza's, you can evacuate quickly and save your eggs.
Vulkoras: This ship has the most powerful PM batteries in the game. Its something like 78 PM damage by level 6. At level 10, this is dealing more than a hundred DPS with PM's alone.
Phase Missile Swarm: Finally, someone who understands how this ability isn't good. The most important thing to note is that the PMS doesn't actually fire PM's. They are just normal missiles... If it fired actual phase missiles, it would be far better.
Siege Platform: Allows you to go deploy them while the rest of your fleet is getting shot at. When you have enough deployed, you can go back and start pummeling people yourself.
Assault Specialization: Turns this ship into a one-man wrecking crew. This thing allows you to deal far more damage to structures (and SB's unless I am mistaken) as well as planets. Very good passive for a planet bomber.
Disintegration: While this is no MB, this is still a good "Super-Beam" weapon. You heal yourself 50-75% of what you deal, making this a great way to take out enemy caps while keeping yourself alive. Did I mention it deals damage directly to the hull? Combine this with the PM's this ship already has, and this thing slaughters caps.
Well, there you go... While the Antorak is indeed worthless, the others do have their uses...
I just don't see why you think the Kortul is worthless? It is a great ship which can effectively counter fleets. I mean, one of these will make your fleet far more effective. When you combine the counters of the Kortul with Nano, you get a very good combo which is hard to kill.
The same applies to the Vulkoras. Against ships, it has tons of PM's and against planets/structures, it has abilities. I just don't see what your point is... In practice, Disintegration deals more direct damage than Cleansing Brilliance. Technically, they both deal 2000 raw damage, but Disintegration damages the hull directly, rather than worrying about shields and mitigation. That is what makes this good. Sure, you can't synergize it with other abilities or hit multiple ships with the beam, but you do gain regenerate health thanks to it.
The Skirantra is on the bubble for me. MPA is a good boost to SC and RC is a good thing to have as it vastly improves survivability of both fleet and SC. I tend to get this ship to accompany an Egg as it helps out quite a bit. When you combine this ship with a bunch of light carriers, it becomes more useful as MPA and RC just about make your SC immortal.
Well, you could always throw your entire computer out the window... Or you could stick the game on an 8 gig jump drive although throwing it the window probably wouldn't hurt the thing much as they are pretty solid... If you have an Ironkey, don't even try... Those things are hammer-proof, so forget about the window... Try a nailgun...
Antorak's fourth ability is Stabilize Phase Space, which, if I remember correctly, was recently made non-channelling for Entrenchment 1.03 (though I can't verify this - I don't have Entrenchment).
Prior to the Kostura's ability to create a temporary Phase Stabilizer Node, SPS was the only way to do the same thing. Its only useful once you have a network of Phase Stabilizers up and running (unless another level 6 Marauder using SPS works). Allows for your ships to bypass frontline planets or make a rapid retreat.
I had corrected it before you posted that, but on well... Throw an Egg in with an Antorak for good measure, and you have the best raiding party in the game. If you come under fire, you can always retreat and then come back later. Unless they intend to burn x hundred thousand credits fortifying every single world, this would work quite well.
hahaha. so funny, n3rull. i have this problem all the time.
i do, however, come to the same conclusions as Volt_Cruelerz. every vasari ship has its uses, even the antorak. its ultimate ability makes it worth it to have one late game, especially on big maps.
the advent, well, we know that all of their caps are awesome
the TEC: kol is awesome, just won't diemarza is awesomedunov doesnt get much love, but i think its great. its shield restore is really good, emp is really good, flux field is awesome, especially w/ kol. also, try deploying in pairs, or even more. the shield restores will prevetn them from dyingsova is really bad, i think. embargo is a great ability, but i never get to use it. doesnt really fit in w/ my style. but dps sux, heavy fighters sux, rapid maufacturing suxakkan sux, i get it to colonize in early game, and thats it
There is actually a use for targeting uplink, if you're spamming Lrms. I beleive you only need to have it at level one to outrange a Argonevs basic weaponry (not 100% on other SBs). It won't be insanely usefull, but can save losses when rushing a freshly built sb, or allow your Lrms to contribute to taking out repairbays/the SB itself when you have bombers going for a more upgraded SB.
Well, the Akkan deals almost as much damage as the Kol. When working with LRM's, it becomes very helpful. Outside of that, Ion Bolt is good. Its colonize is mediocre though...
i suppose the range does help, i forgot about that. but you still would never really need more than 1 akkan. its colonize ability really sux. i save 600 credits? maybe? progen and jarrasul are much better
When it comes to abilities, it is the ultimate in preventing death (makes you invincible for 60 seconds and the range upgrade), but is not nearly as good with its abilities as the Progenitor or the Jarrasul. It does deal far more damage than either though, so its a bit of a demi-battleship.
Are we talking only about regular sins caps or can we talk about mod cap ships like bsg, 7 deadly sins and star wars?
1+2+3+4 = SHIIIIIT.
someone made n3rull angry!
I don't agree about the Volatile Nanites. I have destroyed many a fleet using that ability. Slap that on the light cruisers which are always in the front middle, get all the HC while you are at it....focus fire several of the LC and watch the light show. By the time you are done the LF are poof, and the HC have been turned golden brown and ready to be served. Granted it does not have the game turning power of MB (unless the enemy has all their ships on tight formation), but you can make the morale of a fleet turn from green to red quick like. And of course nothing is more fun than picking on a fleeing fleet right at your GW with a PJI.
For the Sova, I agree most of its abilities are crappy when it comes to fleet support. However, its level 6 does indeed have a use and its really in the mid game. With this ability the Sova becomes VERY versitle. Meaning, you jump into a gravity well and your SC are set to fighters. Oh look, not a single bit of enemy fleet around. Scuttle the fighters start the bombers building, hit the level six, and great googly moogly you got a set of bombers ready to do some damage. It also works in reverse of course when the computer suddenly shows up with fighters you can do the same thing in reverse and get your fighters out fast. 45 second duration means you can keep your fighters in the fight the entire time and it leaves 75 seconds till you can do it again.
The heavy strike craft buff is lame, but hey...extra damage is extra damage.
And that is my 2 cents.
yeah... for someone I have never seen as highly vulgar, someone made him very angry indeed. I'm just trying to figure out who/what did it...
Not really. I couldn't really care less about what the forum users think about the cap ships.What scares the bejesus outta me is the thought that the devs might actually believe the caps are good.They're not.
This game is really cool and has awesome potential. But right now, I hate being forced to go EGG every stupid game unless I'm two jumps away from the enemy homeworld, in which case it's Vulkoras + siege platforms/ass spec.I can't stand that there's just one or two ways to start a game (excluding very specific and rare situations) that simply own all other, no matter how ingenious strats.
The devs have to realize that in the vast majority of MP games there is only one cap ship per player that ever reaches lvl 6.Most games never see a second cap.
They have to understand that all cap ships have to be viable as the first cap. Their abilities must be different, the way they affect the game more or less subtle and may work best with different fleet compositions, but each of them has to be of a good use as the opening cap.
I just hate the thought that the current status quo might not be changed because Blair looks up a cap ship thread and sees just how awesome the Vasari caps are, all because some incurious kid read the tooltip, mounted an image of world shattering super-awesome weapon of doom and starts praising the shit out of it all over the internet.
I'm not really angry at anyone - if you want to play with a pushover piece of junk that doesn't help your fleet in any other way than by being bigger and more shiny than other ships, or by having a more badass voice when you click at it, then by all means have fun. Or if you just don't give a crap about other caps cause the EGG IS AWESUM AN I CAN PWN U WIT IT LOL! then you too have fun (and stay away).
But I will do my best so the devs can see the FULL PICTURE.
edit.
True. I do agree with you there. The Advent caps synergize and the TEC caps are independent (minus Kol+Dunov). The Vasari caps are just out-there. They have by far the strangest abilities in the game and many of which aren't really all that helpful. Balance mods are on a quest to fix the imbalance in the game and just recently we have had three people who have common sense begin mods of their own. If the devs see the end result of those mods, they will hopefully change the game in a way that is beneficial to the community. I'm working on a mod currently that while it is not focused on balance, I will try to fix some of the things this game is obviously doing wrong. I'll make sure to take another look at the caps.
I also apologize for being wrong about Disintegration. I genuinely thought that it did damage the hull directly, as damaging the shields doesn't make sense for a weapon like that.
I also know that caps aren't for damage dealing. I'm just saying that it helps out. If caps didn't do any damage at all, they would be far less effective. Albeit not their primary role, covering fire is something caps do well. I was also mentioning the PM's damage as it is a very large amount for PM's. Also, you said 150 for the Marza. That would only be at level 9-10. I was talking level 5-6. They deal about the same missile damage, although yes the Marza's is higher. I just believe it is not that much different.
But as for MPA, it spreads the damage out. By preventing them from taking another volley, it will save your SC. Due to the cooldown of enemy ships, it would reduce the overall damage your SC take, and by spreading it, you allow your SC to regenerate while others are taking reduced poundings. A flak frig cannot kill a Vasari SC in one volley. For this reason it helps. Even if they could, it would still help as it would shorten the duration, thus decreasing the damage dealt.
Really, I do agree with you on many cases, but I just don't see your point on Repair Cloud, Fighter Blink, and Volatile Nanites. Power Surge is border line... I like the ability as an 80% damage buff is very nice, but you are right on the shield regen. It doesn't really do all that much for survivability. I too calculated it out once and you are correct, it heals very little. IMO, the Kortul would be significantly more useful if Power Surge healed more and increased damage a bit more.
Just curious, but would you deem Disintegration good if it did damage the hull directly? Just curious as I am thinking about giving it a damage nerf but making it ignore shields for my mod...
Well, hopefully I'll be able to post without "Forums Go Boom" happening again, but its happened on my few posts so...
Being able to replace squadrons quickly can be useful. But at level six, Rapid Manufacturing is only affecting four SC. So really, the 120 antimatter to switch from Fighters to Bombers fast isn't that great unless you're in dire need of a certain SC. If only it was AOE...
And thank you N3rull, for explaining Vasari capitals. I didn't realise how bad most really were.
30 HP/sec for 10 seconds isn't bad at all. That's like a repair bay operating on your entire army for ten seconds. Yeah, shield restore totally outclasses it, but SR is one of the game's very best abilities. Microphasing aura is serously underestimated, and is actually quite a solid passive ability that's particularly useful in fighter vs fighter dogfights. Categorizing replicate forces with scramble bombers is inappropriate; scramble is the weakest ability in the game by a longshot, and nothing comes close. Replicate is below average, but still has its uses.
Seeing as Vasari basically end up using carrier-based strategies in the late game and the Skirantra is the only Vasari capital ship that buffs fighters and bombers, it's a solid choice.
The Vulk is basically an armoured super-siege frigate. You can use it like you should be able to use siege frigates to threaten enemy border planets and force them to either split their fleet or sink money in static defenses. You don't use it for its combat abilities, although disintigration is worth adding to if only as a self-heal on a ship that may be frequently flying solo deep in enemy territory.
Although I will agree it's underpowered, I will also add that it's underrated. Phase out hull does have several practical uses even if most of its theoretical uses never happen. Subversion has a wickedly long duration and can essentially shut down construction at an enemy's forward base. Distort gravity can bypass PJI's; obviously that's not important against enemies who don't use them, but against someone who does it's invaluable. The Antorak's ultimate ability is probably one of the strongest in the game, effectively giving you access to the primary effect of the Vasari superweapon. Combined with distort gravity to get into position, your fleet can attack your enemy anywhere, then use the same ability to retreat back the way you came. Subversion leaves a chain of sentries to warn of approaching enemies and shuts down reinforcement production nearby. A very solid combination. If the Antorak can reach high levels, it goes from a silly single-purpose (disruption) cap to an awesome multi-purpose one.
It's still the weakest Vasari capital ship because it's the hardest to use and still not great until the very high levels, but on the other hand it's regularly underestimated.
Volatile Nanites are pretty awesome. Obviously if you compare to missile barrage you're going to be disappointed, but compared to other ultimates (cleansing brilliance, anyone?) this is a pretty solid and devastating ability. Hard to use and requires good timing, but very powerful. Otherwise the Kortul is nothing more than a collection of average but uninspiring abilities. It's an average capital ship, which is neither good nor bad.
The problem I see is that people always compare to the Evacuator, Progenitor, and Marza when evaluating how good a capital ship is. The problem, as was mentioned, is that these capital ships overshadow everything else. Repair cloud doesn't stuck, it's just overshadowed by shield restore. Volatile nanite doesn't suck, it's just overshadowed by missile barrage. The Vasari capital ships (evacuator excluded, obviously) are emblematic of the game's "average" capital ships. They don't stack up to the game's best, but they're solid and respectable at what they do.
well, we have to keep in mind that the devs intended for the vasari to use guerilla tactics. like darvin3 pointed out, the vulkoras and the antorak are good at hit-and-run attacks. i dont believe anyone uses this strategy in multiplayer, so it is overlooked
Ship to ship: Radiance is the best hands down.
As for the vasari caps; the egg is useful at the start and later because of its planet vortex and nano disassembler.
The Kortul is the best thing the vasari have versus strikecraft and one of the hardest ships to kill due to distruptive strikes and power surge.
Antorak gets useful if it can get to higher levels, but sins is a combat game and a raiding ship doesn't really fit in.
Skirantra is useful almost exclusively for repair cloud and the highly situational replicate forces.
The vulkoras is a big siege frigate, and thats about it
Probably because the Antorak is the hardest ship in the game to get to level 6. If you succeed (which can happen on super huge/multi-hundred planet maps), it becomes the ultimate at this. When faced with insurmountable odds, you can go where no enemy can chase you. When an Antorak, Vulkoras, and a Jarrasul work together, they are are the best guerilla force in the game. Each race has a trio of capitals
Holy Trinity: Progenitor, Halcyon, Radiance
Destruction: Kol, Dunov, Marza
Guerilla: Jarrasul, Antorak, Vulkoras
I'm not gonna respond to all your posts because you all basically confirmed my statement .
Anyway:
Repair Cloud does 'stuck' .
So - Repair Cloud is a good, micro intensive ability that helps you keep your strikecraft alive for 30-ish seconds into the battle.As a fleet healer, it's lul.
Volatile Nanites is overshadowed both by MB and Malice-CB (CB triggers Malice. If Vasari had something that could quickly blow up 10-15 ships, like CB, it would make Vol Nans great. Sadly, they don't have anything like that, except a squadron of 6 Vulkoras' with 3/3 PMS each... lol). So it's basically heavily overshadowed by all other crowd control abilities out there ^^ which means it sucks.When you look at the Enforcer, you will see that it's so good - it has so much hull and shields and guns and w00t and reintegration. Yay. But then you compare it to other HCs (and illums lol) and see that it is worse, it's ability is worse, it's overpriced, its weapon upgrades are on a sadistically high tech level (and thus much more expensive and take much more time to make).Everything is relative. Being noticeably worse than every counterpart available to other races means that this thing sucks.
Along that line, when you have one über ship, one good planet cracker and three 'average' ships (as in - way below the other two) then why would you bother taking them.Then, when you know they're not a valid choice to start with, they're not a valid choice at all, because only the biggest games ever see a second or third cap being fielded (with scarce exceptions of two-egg starts or vulkoras spams, which don't help this argument at all).
lol...the skirantra is ok...if you have several of them to help. If you are going 1 on 1 Cap ship against any other cap ship in the game...the best all-around ship is the Egg. There was a post where a guy ran some tests of 1v1 battles and the Egg won hands down everytime.
all of this matters not, when compared to the nano-dissembler of the Egg.
You take your level 10 Kortul and put it against my level 10 egg and I will take yours down before you take down my egg. This is a battle with no other ships or factors determining an outcome. The nano-disembler ability bypasses your shields and immediately eats your hull points down at a rate that you cannot regenerate them to save yourself. Trust me, the Kortul is nice, but nothing in this game can match an Egg that is run properly. Ask any old pro that knows anything of the game and they will agree with this statement.
See N3rull understands the cap ships in this game...all cap ships are nothing compared to the EGG...any player that is worth a crap and knows how to play an Egg will pwn any other player in the game 99% of the time. (note: that said player has to know how to adapt to varyign strats, but at this point, the player is prob good enough to do that).
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